Any Information on Grt grandfather please

[Robalong01]

Hi All,

It's my first visit to the forums so please bare with me,I recently aquired from an older relative a couple of pictures of my Grt Grandfather George Long,from the pictures He served with one of the artillery divisions and was discharged in 1919 but I've been unable to source his records.

From the picture you can see the he's written that it's the Mahaluxmi Battery but I can find any information,I'm assuming that I'm right thats its Mumbai but know little else.

Any Information would be great.

Thanks Rob

[MaureenE]

Rob, the Mahaluxmi Battery was in Bombay, now Mumbai. There is a brief reference on page 81 of Visitor's Illustrated Guide to Bombay by D A Pinder published 1904 Archive.org

http://archive.org/stream/visitorsillustr00pindgoog#page/n138/mode/2up

It appears to have been used as a geographical land mark as this Google Books snippet search result indicated “with a view to subsequently extending operations over the whole southern portion of the City, south of a line drawn between Kasara Basin, Mazagaon and Mahaluxmi Battery, and possibly in other parts of the Island”.

It was located on the western side of Bombay island, see this 1909 map, from the Imperial Gazetteer of India, Volume 26.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/gaz_atlas_1909/pager.html?object=57

Your relative may or may not have actually served here. He may just have been visiting as a “tourist”

Cheers

Maureen

[Robalong01]

Hi Maureen and thanks for your information,I found it very interesitng,what I fail to understand is,he must have been there for some time as he sent this picture home to his mother from there, As you can see,he's in full uniform?

Thanks again Rob

[MaureenE]

Rob, I wasn't exact enough in what I said. I meant that he perhaps could have been stationed in a military base elswhere, and was visiting Bombay on leave when the photograph was taken.

He may well have been one of the Territorial Force troops sent to India

See the FIBIS Fibiwiki page First world War, section "British Army Territorial Force troops in India"

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=First_World_War#British_Army_Territorial_Force_troops_in_India

Cheers

Maureen

[Robalong01]

Thanks again Maureen,the links made interested reading but still no closer to any service history..

Rob

[kenf48]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

You seem to have some information on this soldier, it can be more helpful if you post what you already know and where you have looked, presumably if you have a discharge date for example you have a service number. Did he serve with the RGA RHA or RFA?

It might also be helpful if you could post the cap badge at the highest definition. Did he have any other names? When was he born?

Assuming he was artillery I've found an medal index card for a 'George Long' Gnr RFA 257185/RGA 227201. He was entitled to the British War Medal (BWM) which means he did not enter a theatre of war so that suggests he 'left his native shore' and served on Garrison Duty, typically though not exclusively, in India.

Similarly there is a 'George F. Long' who was also TF 130632 Gnr RGA again entitlement BWM alone, so he was also on garrison duty.

There appears to be only a limited number of RGA Companies assigned to Bombay in the 1914 RGA ORBAT (Order of Battle):-

52 (on notice for Karachi) Bombay Brigade; 77 Coy Bombay Brigade; 79 Coy Bombay Brigade; 85 Coy (on notice for Calcutta) Bombay Brigade (source Rinaldi).

If we could narrow down his service number we could look for soldiers with similar numbers and see if their records have survived. I'd suggest it was post 1916.

Inevitably those soldiers posted to Garrison Duty in India by this time (under the terms of the Military Service Act) were usually in medical category B - Free from serious organic diseases, able to stand service on the lines of communication in France, or in garrisons in the tropics.

There were a number of sub-categories but basically the Act created categories 'A' (active service) 'B' and 'C' (Home).

Ken

[Robalong01]

Hello Ken and thank you for the reply,

I'll try to post a close up of any insignia and his cap badge if I can it looks as though its a wooden wheel with scrolls underneath,I dont have any discharge papers but on the reverse side of one picture it has something like the 17 aug 1919,I'm at work at the moment so can be sure thats fully correct,I am a member of Ancestry and checked through the records and cards but no-one seams to match his profile.I'm not sure as to with which type of artillery he served,all I really have is those two pictures and that he was in India,he would have been living in Southwark south London when he enlisted and his next of kin may have been his father George Long.He would have been G G Long,G Long,George Long or George Greenfield Long.

Thanks again Rob

[Robalong01]

Hi again,I've tried to get a close up off his cap badge but it's not very clear so as I stated on the previous post it looks like it could be RFA. Although its vague it looks as though he has crossed flags and a stripe on his left forearm if this is of help.

[kenf48]

I'm a little confused by your photographs.

The first one clearly shows a soldier wearing 'khaki drill' uniform, but is unfortunately so small and faded it doesn't help much beyond the written location and the endearment. Is this a postcard or a snap? Is this the photograph with the date on the reverse, or the other one? It is however entirely consistent with a soldier on duty (or as suggested above 'off duty') in India.

You note he sent the second picture home. How do you know this? Is it a postcard? Does it have a stamp/postmark? Is there a note as to the photographer's studio? Although sepia toned, and so small it's difficult to pick out detail it looks more like standard service dress rather than tropical uniform or khaki drill which did not have side pockets to the tunic.

He's carrying a swagger stick which is more associated with infantry (though of course it may just be a studio prop), and normally a RHA soldier would wear a bandolier across his shoulder.

A small straight stripe on his left forearm could be a wound stripe, in which case we're probably not looking at a soldier who only served in India. Are you sure the other insignia are flags? Could they, for example, indicate a trade? The details could perhaps help identify a unit and then enable a more 'intelligent' search.

His d.o.b. might give an indication as to when he enlisted/was conscripted.

Sorry, more questions than answers again, but hopefully keeping the thread alive.

Ken

[Robalong01]

Hi Ken,I'm at work at the moment but i'll try to answer your questions as best as I can thank you,

Both the pictures look like photo's which have been stuck to post cards(professionally) neither have stamps, they both look to be from british studio's but off hand it cant remember who or were,The picture of him in the studio I think has the date on it,17 aug 1919.The stripe on his left arm from what I can see is the same as a lance jacks stripe but upturned and above it almost definately crossed flags,as you say very faded.In this picture he does not ware spurs,his buttons are indistinguishable but his cap badge looks to me like an artillery badge but the writing I can't make out.

from what I have been told both pictures came from my grt grandmother after her death and from his service in India but thats all the info I have.

The picture of him in seated looks like there are a couple of military tents behind and the photo also shows a second set of wheels to his right which I assume is the ammunition carriage.his uniform looks to me like its very light cotton as I've seen in some other pictures of individuals but again the picture has been water maked so very faded.his dob: 11/07/1899 in Southwark London then Surrey.

when I get home this evening I'll have another look to see who the photographers are and any other details,thanks for your time and hope this helps a little.

Just edited the post now I'm home and the battery picture has no photographers mark,it has a similar message on the back,then the date 18/12/19.both look like actual photo's with post card stamped on the back

Rob

[kenf48]

If he was born on 11/07/1899 he would have been eligible for mobilisation at 18, (accepting many soldiers enlisted under age in 1914 by 1916 and the introduction of the Military Service Act and compulsory registration it was far more difficult later). So that gives a call-up date around July 1917, see http://www.1914-1918.net/msa1916.html and the links at the bottom of the page. 18 year olds were effectively on the Army Reserve and were either sent home for a few months or could join their unit for training and were sent overseas at 19 which was the old pre-war Army age for overseas service. (In 1918 following the Spring Offensive numbers were sent to France at 18 and a half).

Chronologically then the enlistment date was July/August 1917; mobilisation six months later say March/April 1918; training three months and then posting July/August. The inverted chevron on his lower sleeve (which I can't see) is usually worn on the left sleeve and indicates one year's overseas service; studio photo taken in UK August 1919 suggests he served elsewhere prior to India as they didn't get leave from there as a general rule. So it's still a bit of a mystery.

The Mumbai (Bombay) picture was taken in India post war and can be definitively identified as to place and time if it was after the studio portrait in the UK, and he did not actually go to India until August 1919 he would not qualify for any war service medals but, if India was a second posting after active service then maybe he qualified for the BWM and Victory Medal.

Alternatively, the studio portrait was also taken in India and we're back where we started!

Ken