calibre792x57.y Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 As we speak of improvised trench knives here is a French Coultrot Nr 1. These were the 1915 brainchild of Lt.Col Coutrot who utilised surplus M.1886 epee bayonets to produce three trench knives from each bayonet blade. This was the most often found variation and the sturdiest; it used the section of blade nearest the hilt. It kept the original tang which was fitted with a hardwood hilt and riveted over. The blade was re-ground to give a diamond section point. A simple leather sheath with a belt loop and handle retaining loop was issued but this one has unfortunately lost it. The scabbard wasn't too practical as it tended to swivel on the standard waist belt. The steel handguard is stamped with the maker's trade mark; 'G.B.' for Georges Page, Cutler of Domine, Vienne in South-East France. The hilt has a pencilled inscription which appears to be a date but which I cannot read. It was certainly rather more practical than the 'Clou Francais' previously shown. SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Very nice but veering off topic for a Grenade thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Bomber's Equipment! - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 I agree a tangent. New thread for bombers equipment perhaps? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 1 hour ago, calibre792x57.y said: Bomber's Equipment! - SW Stretching it rather! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 September , 2016 Share Posted 29 September , 2016 Here's one even the experts may have trouble identifying. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 29 September , 2016 Share Posted 29 September , 2016 John It is the remains of one of the Daniels & Gardiner experimental grenades. They designed several but none of them went into service. IWM munitions collection has several of their efforts. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 September , 2016 Share Posted 29 September , 2016 (edited) Well done. This was their last effort, the Mk 8. Briefly referred to in Anthony Saunders 'Weapons of the the Trench War 1914-1918'. Pioneers of the All-Ways fuze that didn't see real service until the No 69 grenade in WW2. John Edited 29 September , 2016 by Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 14 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said: Pioneers of the All-Ways fuze that didn't see real service until the No 69 grenade in WW2. John GB, Don't forget the always fuze on the Lanze (Lance) 90mm Trench Mortar bought from Austria by Germany. We found one in a 1916 context in Plug street and that fuze is less fun than even the No247 to deal with! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 'Lanze' does mean 'lance', Rod, but the 9.15cm 'leichter Minenwerfer Lanz' was named after its designer, Heinrich Lanz of Mannheim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 Hi Rod / Mick I'm only talking grenades here. I think the Italians got there first with the PO Grenade. The No 30 was tested but not put into service and this was resurrected with the No 54 post WW1 but never used in anger, the No. 69 was the first operational all ways grenade for the UK. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 Managed to source a release socket for my No 20 as it was missing this. Need a cap now for the top. Anyone have advice where to get one. May have to buy a cheap relic one as a last resort? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 2 hours ago, trenchtrotter said: Managed to source a release socket for my No 20 as it was missing this. Need a cap now for the top. TT Do you mean the transit plug cap? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 1 hour ago, Gunner Bailey said: Do you mean the transit plug cap? John John yes or the detonator tube and screw cap (inert of course) but equally transit would be good. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 September , 2016 Share Posted 30 September , 2016 PM sent John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith119 Posted 3 October , 2016 Share Posted 3 October , 2016 As I read earlier in this tread a Bombing Squad had a primary thrower followed by a carrier with more Mills Bombs. The carrier would have worn a grenade vest and probably a bucket with more Mills Bombs. Would the primary thrower still have worn his P08 webbing gear since he wouldn't have carried a rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2016 16 hours ago, keith119 said: As I read earlier in this tread a Bombing Squad had a primary thrower followed by a carrier with more Mills Bombs. The carrier would have worn a grenade vest and probably a bucket with more Mills Bombs. Would the primary thrower still have worn his P08 webbing gear since he wouldn't have carried a rifle? Keith, Here is a photograph of a Bombing Squad, which clearly shows them to be lightly armed, and using both grenade vests and canvas buckets to carry the grenades, we can also see the kit being worn by this particular squad. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 4 October , 2016 Share Posted 4 October , 2016 LF, Thank you! A few years ago whilst digging at Thiepval I dealt with 96 No 5 Grenades (8 Boxes worth) that had been prep'ed and left as defence for the trench. I believed that they were in sandbags but canvas buckets makes much more sense. It takes a while but we get there in the end! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony N Posted 4 October , 2016 Share Posted 4 October , 2016 I have a medal pair to a man killed during a trench raid in June 1917, while researching him I came across a list of equipment to be carried in the war diary. No doubt the list of equipment varied depending on the size of the job but the bombers for this particular raid carried: 1 waist belt 1 water bottle 1 steel helmet 1 box respirator 10 Mills No. 5 1 club Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 October , 2016 Share Posted 4 October , 2016 An account I translated some months ago of a German counter-attack in the Thiepval area on 1 July reported: "... as there were no German grenades left, the men availed themselves of the generous quantities of British grenades in green sacks that were conveniently available." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2016 18 minutes ago, SiegeGunner said: An account I translated some months ago of a German counter-attack in the Thiepval area on 1 July reported: "... as there were no German grenades left, the men availed themselves of the generous quantities of British grenades in green sacks that were conveniently available." SG, Here is a nice drawing of British Bombers using the canvas grenade buckets which held 24 Mills grenades. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 October , 2016 Share Posted 4 October , 2016 I know that the 'buckets' were actually collapsible round canvas bags with handles, LF, but were they green ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 October , 2016 Share Posted 5 October , 2016 (edited) Here's another image from a training manual. John 15 hours ago, SiegeGunner said: I know that the 'buckets' were actually collapsible round canvas bags with handles, LF, but were they green ..? Good question. When you consider that Mills crates in WW1 were mainly grey and pink you have to wonder.... John Edited 5 October , 2016 by Gunner Bailey formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 October , 2016 Share Posted 5 October , 2016 18 hours ago, Lancashire Fusilier said: SG, Here is a nice drawing of British Bombers using the canvas grenade buckets which held 24 Mills grenades. Regards, LF LF The bucket may have possibly have held 24 Mills Grenades but I question whether it was used with so many. 24 Mills grenades weigh 36 pounds. 1. That is a lot for a thin strap to hold 2. It's a hell of a weight to struggle across very uneven ground with (think suitcase at an airport) 3. Try jumping down a 7 foot drop into a German trench with a 36 pound bucket 4. As you have said before, Bombing teams were lightly equipped. 5. Looking at the size I'm not sure they could actually take 24 Mills Bombs under the tied level. The area to be filled it 10 inches high and 10 in diameter. I would think these buckets probably were filled with 10-15 grenades and no more in reality. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 5 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2016 39 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said: LF I would think these buckets probably were filled with 10-15 grenades and no more in reality. John John, Your figure of 10-15 grenades carried in a grenade bucket is definitely a wrong figure, and way too low. The Bomber's Training Manual quotes the Bomber's Bucket as holding 20 grenades ( see attached ), and I am sure the Bombers added 3 or 4 more for good measure, and that is why the figure of 24 grenades carried in a bucket is often quoted. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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