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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

WW1 Grenades both British and Enemy.


Lancashire Fusilier

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Here’s something I found while unsuccessfully searching for the base plug tap size of a Mills (could only find it’s 20 tpi but not the actual size) and thought it might be interesting for this thread. It’s from an online book called Bombs and Hand Grenades 1919


Gas bomb MSK


It is an iron sphere, 8 sec. fuze, contains fluid which smells like pineapple, produces tears and causes violent headaches.

Chief use for dugouts and mopping up.


Precautions.

Smoke bombs should always be stored separately from explosives. Store in a cool dry place.

Phosphorus bombs should be examined frequently. If tin is not air tight destroy. In opening be careful of friction.

Always throw as far as possible.


Tony

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Hello,


I’ve just bought a No. 23 and a No.36 Mills in semi relic condition as well as a relic centre seam No. 5 and would like to clean them up / restore them although the No. 5 will be a tall order.


Anyway, I’d like to ask if there’s a difference in length of the centrepieces for different Mills grenades. The No. 36 is missing this part, but a spare I have won’t screw all the way in even though I’ve cleaned the thread as good as I can. Ordinarily I’d try to buy a tap to recut the thread however, finding the correct size apart from it being 20 tpi isn’t proving easy.


Last question for the time being, I can’t remove the centrepiece from the No. 23 even though I’ve had it sitting in WD 40 for the last few days. Any tips? Or is it best to leave it through fear of cracking the aluminium?


The 3 examples are pictured, the No. 36 has already had a good going over with a wire brush but the filler plug looks as though it can’t be removed.


Tony

post-6680-0-58923200-1437048859_thumb.jp

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Last question for the time being, I can’t remove the centrepiece from the No. 23 even though I’ve had it sitting in WD 40 for the last few days. Any tips? Or is it best to leave it through fear of cracking the aluminium?

Tony,

You have some nice examples, and there is a purpose made tool available which is designed to remove the centrepiece. It has 2 sized prongs, one for each of the 2 holes in the base of the centrepiece. I have successfully used this tool to remove several centerpieces after having first used light gun oil to lubricate the threads.

If you do not have this tool, they are available for about 25 pounds.

Regards,

LF

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Thanks for the comment and suggestion. 25 GBP + is quite a bit but perhaps it's worth the investment.

I've managed to get my spare centrepiece fully into the body so apart from the gascheck disc, the No. 36 is as good as I can get it although it does need a better lever.

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post-6680-0-91740900-1437066969_thumb.jp

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Thanks for the comment and suggestion. 25 GBP + is quite a bit but perhaps it's worth the investment.

Tony,

That is just one retailer's price, I am sure cheaper versions are available, and as they are quite a simple design, they are probably relatively easy to make yourself.

The rarer centre seam versions, are always nice to have.

Regards,

Le

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I use a set of heavy needle nose pliers set into my vice, open enough go into the holes.

Mick

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I use a set of heavy needle nose pliers set into my vice, open enough go into the holes.

Mick

Mick, that's exactly what I did to get the centrepiece screwed fully into the body of the No. 36. The No. 23 is still sitting in WD40 but if the needle nose pliers don't shift it I'll have to buy one of those tools sooner rather than later.

I did notice one seller has it listed as a centre tube removal tool on his website but then says it's for fitting new ones, not removing those that have been in there for a long time. Makes it sound as though it isn't for heavy duty use.

Tony

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I had one that appeared to be lacquered, even the base was difficult to remove, the treads were coated with something brown and horrible, I eventually got round it by gently heating the outside of the grenade until I got a bit of movement. That being said possibly not a wise move if anything left inside.

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Mick, that's exactly what I did to get the centrepiece screwed fully into the body of the No. 36. The No. 23 is still sitting in WD40 but if the needle nose pliers don't shift it I'll have to buy one of those tools sooner rather than later.

I did notice one seller has it listed as a centre tube removal tool on his website but then says it's for fitting new ones, not removing those that have been in there for a long time. Makes it sound as though it isn't for heavy duty use.

Tony

Tony,

The centrepiece removal tool I have ( see attached ), is a metal wrench with 2 prongs, each prong fitting into one of the 2 holes in the base of the centrepiece. Using this tool in conjunction with a soaking of the threads with a light gun oil ( WD40 will also help ), and with good leverage from the removal tool, I have successfully removed several ' stuck ' centerpieces. It is important, to make sure the removal tool prongs are fully inserted into the holes.

For anyone who may be removing several ' stuck ' centrepieces, the removal tool is probably a good investment.

Obviously, heating any grenade, is not a good idea !, as auchonvillerssomme has already said.

Regards,

LF

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Oh yes, definitly a worthwhile investment as stuck centrepieces have put me off parting with my money in the past.

Tony

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Here are some photographs of the centerpiece removal tool in use, and it seems to fit all types of Mills grenades. In one of the photographs, I have partially removed the tool, however, when removing the CP, the tool's prongs need to be fully inserted into the 2 holes in the CP base for maximum leverage.

With a really hard to remove CP., having first soaked the threads in light gun oil, I have bound the grenade with thick cloth to protect the grenade's exterior finish, place the grenade in a vice, and then used the CP removal tool.

I have only ever worked on empty deactivated Mills grenades, and unless you know the grenade to be empty and deactivated, do not attempt to remove any parts !

LF


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I'll add a few grenades and their remains that were found in excavations and were brought to my attention.

This grande was found in nebi samuel.

The photographs were taken by the police bomb squad before they destroyed it (they were kind enough to leave me a photograph).

It resembles the kugel 1913 but it is a bit different, which made me suspect that this is an Ottoman grande based on the kugel.

i-39LdmmM-M.jpgi-M4k3n2j-M.jpg

This one was found in the outskirts of Beit hanina during an excavation (again the bomb squad guys were nice and left us a photograph.

this time it seems to be Mills #23.

i-pq9dC3x-M.jpg

here's a bottom part of a Mills (#5 or 23) from nebi samuel:

i-Ks5DCJJ-M.jpg

another case of an ottoman granade (still without id) that the police photographed, the granade is inside a bucket

i-XcxgGND-M.jpg

Assaf

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I'll add a few grenades and their remains that were found in excavations and were brought to my attention.

Assaf,

Thanks for sharing those very interesting photographs, with all those WW1 items looking remarkably well preserved, which is probably due to the local climate and the ground/soil type.

The downside to their excellent condition, is the very real danger they still possess.

Regards,

LF

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Any confirmation of the grenade at the top of post 662 that Assaf has kindly supplied.

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Assaf,

Thanks for sharing those very interesting photographs, with all those WW1 items looking remarkably well preserved, which is probably due to the local climate and the ground/soil type.

The downside to their excellent condition, is the very real danger they still possess.

Regards,

LF

As an archeologist, i can tell you that in most cases the preservation of metals in the Judean hills area is wonderful.

the only thing there that can ruin metals is if the item is very close to the bedrock and there are water accumulating next to it.

the preservation in the judean desert and the negev are superb but you don't want it next to the sea shores of the dead sea or the Mediterranean.

excellent preservation or not (i'm actually more scared when it looks bad), we always treat it as live ammunition that can explode at any moment and call the police.

the problem is always the same, one of the workers picking it up and asking what is it or what to do with it...

i have a few more photographs, i'll try to post them as soon as i can.

Assaf

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Great photos Assaf.

Mick, I wonder if the grenade at the top of post 662 is one of these http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ww1-turkish-grenades-study/although the one pictured is possibly more round than oval in shape.

Tony

there is some resemblance, it even looks more compatible then the kugel 1913 but it still doesn't look like a complete match.

The only source that i could find that mentioned (briefly) that there was local manufacturing of hand grenades in turkey, is an article by Jonathan Grant (The Sword of the Sultan: ottoman Arms Imports, 1854-1914. the journal of military history, 66. no1, 2002.)

that is why i assumed that this particular grenade is a local imitation of the kugel 1913.

Assaf

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here are the rest of the items i encountered in my research.

this is an image taken by police EOD man who helps me. this is how the grenade that i posted earlier (in the bucket) looks as good as new.

i-JtPKRtt-M.jpg

this one came not far from majdal yaba, where the 52nd division fought the ottoman 54th division (if i remember correctly) early in 1918.

i-74Tjggb-L.jpg

in the middle of this shot (above the shrapnel shell fragment), you can see a similar piece. this time next to what used to be an Ottoman redoubt that later was used by the British.

i-HfqN9hK-M.jpg

i suspect that these are the remains of a range limiter used on German rifle grenades such as this one.

that's all for now.

Assaf

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Thanks for that identification.

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Thanks !

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest sinjinza1984

I am pleased to share a very interesting item from my Collection, a WW1 Mills No.23 Mk.II Hand Grenade made during the middle part of WW1 at the munitions factory of Dobson and Barlow, in Bolton, Lancashire.

Many thanks for posting these pictures. I came across this thread when I found out that my great-grandmother worked on the production line at the Mills factory during the War, so I especially appreciate the photos of the production line.

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Many thanks for posting these pictures. I came across this thread when I found out that my great-grandmother worked on the production line at the Mills factory during the War, so I especially appreciate the photos of the production line.

Welcome to the Forum, and I am pleased you found the Mills factory photographs interesting, especially with your great-grandmother having worked there.

Regards,

LF

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I am the proud owner of this No3 mark 2, was the gutta percha top common to all Mark2's? There seem to be variations.

The only addition is the rod.

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  • 2 weeks later...

1915 grenade/'bomb' manufacture? I have come across this note in 2nd Division RA records [WO95/1315] from the early days of grenade manufacture August 1915.I don't know if a widespread practice..https://captainmowbray.wordpress.com/august-1915/

'930. BISCUIT TINS – RETURN OF. For the next three weeks all empty biscuit tins should be returned to D.A.D.O.S. at refilling point. These are urgently required by the bomb factory for making grenade covers.'

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