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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

WW1 Grenades both British and Enemy.


Lancashire Fusilier

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Thanks for the photo GB: I 've never stripped my specimen down so this is the first time I've seen what they look like externally. - SW

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They are a bit crude compared to the aluminium or brass centre-pieces but they only had to do a job and were designed to last about 3 months not 100 years. The det holder on the left is brass, the other two are copper.

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When pristine, these die cast lead alloy and brass/copper centre pieces - patented and made by the Glacier Anti-Friction Co. Ltd, London - were the match of any aluminium ones. The ones shown herewith are from No.5 grenades; the patent was applied for late 1915.

 

 

 

265

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You don't see many in the No 5. The 3rd from left is a work of art.

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A question- If you go back to #829 and the fuse end photo of the #24 Mk 1there are the initials G.T.L.  Are these manufacture's marks or inspectors or?  I have a rougher example that must be the female part; it has a center threaded central hole and two spanner holes.  The initials stand for what?  Thanks

new3.2

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The initials have always been attributed to Gestetner Limited. So they are makers marks. However Gestetner do not appear in the main directory of manufacturers so convention may be wrong on this. However the directory is not complete and did not seemingly take into account some mergers and acquisitions.

 

John

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Thank you John, sounds good.

Ken

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  • 11 months later...

This thread has been quiet for a while.

 

We had an interesting debate about training grenades, white paint etc which I won't go over again.

 

However I have recently been able to acquire an original 1915 No 5 training grenade which still as most of its white paint though the word practice has worn off. The White painted training grenades were notified in the List of Changes on the 3rd September 1915 and my example is dated October 1915, so one of the first. This would have been filled with sand not explosives and was for throwing practice. Later versions like the Gibbons from 1917 were easily re-cocked. As you can see from the photo the paint has darkened but was clearly white originally.

 

 

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Thank you GB, most interesting.

Ken

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  • 2 months later...

Hi, 

 A new find. 

I don't know if the baseplug is original. 

The body has a "P" stamped on one shoulder, the other shoulder mark is rubbed. The baseplug is marked Calthorpe Motor Co. (1912) Ltd. 

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Edited by GWF1967
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Looks like a nice grenade.

 

Calthorpe Motor Co Ltd got their first contract for 60,000 No 5 grenades at the end of June 1915 and started first deliveries in mid August. So this could be from their first contract.

 

I think a 9/15 grenade would probably have had the first type lever where the pin went thought the lever and the shoulders. So this flat lever  my be a later change. Dates for the introduction of later levers is never clear but I'd date that lever to late 1915 or early 1916.

 

The grenade looks to have the original pin and ring but the base plug is rather battered.

Edited by Gunner Bailey
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19 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said:

Looks like a nice grenade.

 

Calthorpe Motor Co Ltd got their first contract for 60,000 No 5 grenades at the end of June 1915 and started first deliveries in mid August. So this could be from their first contract.

 

I think a 9/15 grenade would probably have had the first type lever where the pin went thought the lever and the shoulders. So this flat lever  my be a later change. Dates for the introduction of later levers is never clear but I'd date that lever to late 1915 or early 1916.

 

The grenade looks to have the original pin and ring but the base plug is rather battered.

Many thanks for the information GB. 

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Last year I was fortunate to obtain a genuine 'Dunkirk' Mills grenade produced in the autumn of 1915 when the British Army was desperate for more Mills grenades. These French made grenades infringed the Belgian 'Roland' grenade patent and production was stopped at about 180,000 following a legal case brought by the Belgian Company to whom Roland had sold his patent,. An order went out for all unused stocks to be destroyed.

 

They are unique in that the embody both the Mills body type features in one grenade. The have the central groove below the filler screw of a 'transverse casting' but also have the side seams of the 'Longditudinal casting'. The centre pieces are cast brass and are a work of art. The base plugs are undated and unmarked but the body sometimes bears the stamp of the maker. The striker has a central spike as the grenade used a 'anvil' with a centre fire cartridge rather than the rim fire cartridge used in the British made Mills.

 

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Edited by Gunner Bailey
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31 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said:

These French made grenades infringed the Belgian 'Roland' grenade patent and production was stopped at about 180,000 following a legal case brought by the Belgian Company to whom Roland had sold his patent,. An order went out for all unused stocks to be destroyed.

 

 

 

 

There is a colossal irony in there, I can imagine the beaurocracy...

 

"Destroy these hand grenades immediately, what are they doing here?"

"They are due to be thrown at Germans within the month and explode"

"We can't do that, its against the law"

"How shall we destroy them then?"

"Very carefully... "

Edited by ServiceRumDiluted
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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 16:16, Gunner Bailey said:

 An order went out for all unused stocks to be destroyed. 

 

 

Really?

 

Two grenades were certainly confiscated from one of the contractors (Monsieur Gauchet) for legal reasons.

 

 

 

265

Edited by 14276265
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16 minutes ago, 14276265 said:

 

Really?

 

 

 

Perhaps I put it too strongly.

 

Certainly the order said 'They were to be withdrawn'. That was March 1916 so I expect many had been destroyed already in combat or training. How many were left at that stage, I don't know.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 17 January 2019 at 08:31, GWF1967 said:

Hi, 

 A new find. 

I don't know if the baseplug is original. 

The body has a "P" stamped on one shoulder, the other shoulder mark is rubbed. The baseplug is marked Calthorpe Motor Co. (1912) Ltd. 

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I bumped into the chap who sold me this No.5, he gave me this base plug which he's sure was in the grenade when he first purchased it in the 70's; it's a better fit than the Calthorpe plug.

 It's  marked 7 (1)6 B? Made by E.A. Randall & Co. 

 The hole was supposedly drilled to allow a prank to be played on someone. 

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Edited by GWF1967
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good Morning,

 

Here is a series of Mill's grenade plugs found on the Loos battlefield :

 

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:poppy:

 

michel

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Can you do a close up  photo of the Bryant's baseplug please?

On 11/02/2019 at 23:31, GWF1967 said:

I bumped into the chap who sold me this No.5, he gave me this base plug which he's sure was in the grenade when he first purchased it in the 70's; it's a better fit than the Calthorpe plug.

 It's  marked 7 (1)6 B? Made by E.A. Randall & Co. 

 The hole was supposedly drilled to allow a prank to be played on someone. 

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Baseplugs with holes like that were normally from grenades mounted on a block for display.

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  • 8 months later...

Hello, I was wondering if anybody on this forum could give me any info on my two British 2.5" Grenade cups.  The first cup doesn't have any finish left and is stamped (I think) JMP and SA over |4|. No markings on the top piece.

 

The second cup is in better condition but has a different top than the first, only one side is machined out for the No 1 Mk III's bayonet lug to fit. The top portion is stamped S&B over NPFL.  On the cup it has a stamp of SA over ?? and JMP.  I don't think these came from India as neither have the RFI stamps.

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

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Interesting: certainly a British manufacturer.  Mine is stamped H.W. Ward &Co. Ltd, Birmingham, and 'M&CL'. and 'S&B followed by a 'D' in a diamond stamp. They seemed to be made by a conglomerate of eight or more manufacturers and first appeared in mid-1917, before they are listed in the L.o.Cs. - SW

Edited by calibre792x57.y
Further info on markings.
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  • 8 months later...

Hi, 

 A new find, can anyone tell me if this is a fantasy base plug please?

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Looks OK to me.

 

Here's one from my collection.

 

DSCN5475.thumb.JPG.21fbadec494f12de68c02e2e40b54d16.JPG

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58 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said:

Looks OK to me.

 

Here's one from my collection.

 

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Smashing. Many thanks G.B. 

 I couldn’t find an example, or mention of “Motor Equipment Birmingham” online, except one piece that seemed to suggest they became “Lucas”

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West Heath Works, Northfield in SW Birmingham.

Edited by Gunner Bailey
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