Guest exuser1 Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Checking in When The Whistle Blows , states L/S Tull sent home 9th May 1916 diagnosed as suffering mania , he had recently begun to display symptoms of shell shock , prior to this date the battalion had undergone company training , they were in the line near Calonne from 19th April 1916, and seem to have had a uncomfortable time , wet weather , trenches in a poor state , working party's were kept busy , on St George's Day the Hun shelled the line with artillery and trench mortars , 10 wounded but no dead . They were relived by 13th Essex and moved in to comfortable billets on 26th April 1916. On the 28th April 1916 ,a sports day was organised with local children , on the 29th back in to support lines and suffered a gas attack but no casualties , on the evening of the 30th back in the front line and suffered 6 wounded 1 would later die due to wounds , on the 4th May they were again relived by the 13th Essex , but 4 days later back in to the front line ,till this point the battalion had not experienced fighting but several men were brining to suffer psychological damage from the effects of war , one solider writing to his wife states the whole business was very trying to the nerves "and lots of fellows get what they call shell shock ,.What with the continual bursting of shells ect,and the thundering of the guns,they seem to go all to pieces.So I am afraid you won't last long out here ,but there is no need to worry as I am A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 The www.waltertull.com website mentions this - "In May, 1915 Walter was sent home with post traumatic stress disorder. ", as does the www.crossingthewhiteline.com one (although this looks largely copied from the former) - this isn't a 'revelation'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Not sure how good their research is at it should be May 1916 , and PTSD is a post Vietnam /Falklands war term ,it would not be called such at this time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Thanks for the link to the WT Sports & Arts Assoc site redbarchetta, where the visitor is almost immediately confronted with this howler: Until November 31st - 10% discount on Phil Vasili’s forthcoming biography Walter Tull, 1888-1918. Officer, Footballer. ‘All the guns in France couldn’t wake me’. Published by Raw Press Oh dear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Ah, yes, slight data error there (which I didn't notice!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Note on Tulls file states mania as of 28th April 1916 , same day as the sports day with local French school children , visions of Tull running after ref arguing the off side after 10 year old French nipper puts one past Spurs finest ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Would it be possible to discuss Walter Tull on a separate thread, please? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 After all there are already nineteen threads with "Walter Tull" in the title! So plenty of choice there. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 21 December , 2012 Admin Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Note on Tulls file states mania as of 28th April 1916 , same day as the sports day with local French school children , visions of Tull running after ref arguing the off side after 10 year old French nipper puts one past Spurs finest ! Totally agree. I thought this thread was about commemoration initiatives. Here is an example (dated Sept) from West Sussex it would be interesting to know if there are similar grants elsewhere and whether the repository of knowledge here and at the WFA could make some positive contribution. http://www.hlf.org.uk/news/Pages/WhenWestSussexwenttowar.aspx#.UNSNMqXJ6sE Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Thank you for the informative link, Ken. In my area it's really hard to get a feel for what, if anything, is being considered. Our local newspaper is no longer written locally, it has no local journalists, it's a thin shadow of its former self and I can't think of any other conduit for information. Occasionally you get someone who's found out about four people on a panel in a chapel self-promoting his "research" and being heralded as the town's Great War Expert. Focus wholly on the dead, as usual. The demographic of this small rural town is unnaturally skewed and the decision makers seem to be out of touch with the technological tools available. (A couple of weeks ago someone was ranting on a public platform in my town about what an utterly stupid idea it was to suggest using apps for something civicand he would never consider using an app because they're dangerous and expensive. That's the sort of open-minded thinker we're up against.) I wish I could think of how to drive any sort of project. That's why I asked for examples. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlisonS Posted 22 December , 2012 Share Posted 22 December , 2012 To link the two topics that have been the main points - I do know my local football team are looking into the players from just pre WW1. I'm sure they won't mine me saying that there were 4 who didn't return from the trenches. Local schools and churches would probably also welcome help with their lost pupils and parishioners. I know there's a book that's been recently published about those on the Hatherleigh(?) Memorial. The author suggests those on Memorials be researched. It doesn't have to be just the big organisations who take the lead in the anniversay. Locally they always leave everything to the last minute to let us know what's been decided. I live in another area where our local paper has been changed to weekly but have the same print space. Therefore an event that will happen in 18 months time gets little or no mention. Individuals will have to get start the ball rolling now if the Centenary is to be used as an educational tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 22 December , 2012 Admin Share Posted 22 December , 2012 I know there's a book that's been recently published about those on the Hatherleigh(?) Memorial. The author suggests those on Memorials be researched....... Individuals will have to get start the ball rolling now if the Centenary is to be used as an educational tool. I think one of the concerns that when this thread began was what appears to be the intention of the powers that be to perpetuate the funerary commemoration of the Great War or 'The Glorious Dead'. It may have been appropriate in light of the loss and the socio-economic conditions created as a consequence of the conflict, although that is arguable, but surely it is time to change anyway. I'm as fascinated as anyone by the soldiers who went to war but it does seem to me (as one of the fairer members of the forum so succinctly put it a couple of years ago) bordering on 'ancestor worship' round the village totem pole. It gave old soldiers an opportunity to show their respect and, no doubt, display their own pride as well as a focus for grieving relatives who had no grave to visit, but we do not know these people who have all now passed into history. I did however, know my grandfather who came home but his story has never been told, like hundreds of thousands more. Personally, I've never been comfortable with the 'Commemoration' of a war that probably should never have been fought and blighted Europe and other parts of the world into this century but it seems it has to be. I would have thought the challenge was to find a way to ditch the old, and flawed (by necessity) twenties/thirties attitudes and literature which defines the conflict and as was said at the outset of the thread look at the other side and celebrate the survivors and their victories. Unfortunately, in 1914 these were Regular soldiers (PBI) and not as appealing/ethnically diverse etc. as the souls who followed them which enables every special interest group to latch on to one or other of them. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high wood Posted 22 December , 2012 Share Posted 22 December , 2012 "Personally, I've never been comfortable with the 'Commemoration' of a war that probably should never have been fought and blighted Europe and other parts of the world into this century but it seems it has to be." Firstly, I don't see it as commemoration; we were exhorted to see to it that their names be not forgotton. "I would have thought the challenge was to find a way to ditch the old, and flawed (by necessity) twenties/thirties attitudes and literature which defines the conflict and as was said at the outset of the thread look at the other side and celebrate the survivors and their victories." Those "old and flawed attitudes" were the attitudes of those who survived the whole ghastly upheaval that was the Great War; attitudes formed by their experiences and their losses and we have no right to say that they were flawed. We were not there. If we leave it to the revisionists the narrative will be that the the Great War began on July 1st 1916 when 20,000 war poets were shot at dawn by upper class Generals whilst a few conscientious objecters helped ethnic minority footballers to overcome racism and lead us to a brave new world. We are in danger of falling into the same old trap of judging the events of the past by our own modern values. The Great War and its aftermath can only truly be understood in the context of the values that pertained at the time. Anything else is looking down the wrong end of the telescope. The challenge is to tell the story of the Great War in all its stark reality, warts and all. By all means tell the stories of brave individuals like Walter Tull but do not mythologise him if the facts do not fit in with the modern political narrative. Tell the stories of all the brave men but do not forget the cowards, the rogues, the war profiteers, the vain and the stupid and those who died in appalling agony screaming for their mothers or drowning in the mud. The 100th anniversary should not be a celebration, there is nothing in war to celebrate, it should be period of quiet reflection in order to remind ourselves of the carnage, the sacrifice and above all, the stupidity of war. Lest we forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin astill Posted 22 December , 2012 Share Posted 22 December , 2012 Some time ago the WFA invited members to suggest ways in which the centenary could be commemorated. I put forward an idea at the time, but do not know whether this was rejected, accepted, or subjected to indifference. This must have been a year ago. A note as to the suggestion's fate would be appreciated, but by now it is too late to follow it up. Meanwhile I will make my own private arrangements to honour the memory of by grandfather Frank Astill, 7th Field Coy R.E. 1914. Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 22 December , 2012 Share Posted 22 December , 2012 Slightly different but there has been happening in Europe a celebration , commeration for a few years now organised in a number of countries and still has 2 years to go ,with a couple of big ones to commerate , no arguments ,no hand wringing and so far has gone off quite well ie The Napoleonic Wars 200 , events have been going on in Spain , France , huge events in Russia and Germany ,Poland and other countries with the biggie Waterloo 2015 on the way , of course we had 2005 Red and Blue Fleet Fiasco , but our European friends seem to have been getting on , no end of books , memorials , events , TV and god forbid huge reenactments , I tend to feel by the time we stop deciding what we shall commerate , celebrate and how ,it will have come and gone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlisonS Posted 24 December , 2012 Share Posted 24 December , 2012 I do agree that 2014 should not be a celebration. It should be a reminder to all that the war to end all wars didn't! For some reason the British tend to be brilliant at organising appropriate events but only after a lot of debate and disagreements over political correctness. This centenary will give the country a chance to evaluate the reason those men and women took part in the horrors of WW1. Remember that they believed that they were fighting for a reason. So please come up with some EASY suggestions that all of us on a local level can take part in. Many communities around the country organised street parties for the Queens Jubilee. While that would not be an appropriate event in this case, perhaps Remembrance Services in August, as well as November could be a way a community could link in with the National events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 12 January , 2013 Share Posted 12 January , 2013 Good article by Hew Strachan in today's Daily Telegraph Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 12 January , 2013 Share Posted 12 January , 2013 "If it simply reworks the familiar themes of remembrance, it will be repetitive, sterile and possibly even boring. If we do not emerge at the end of the process in 2018 with fresh perspectives, we shall have failed." Well Hew, you are on that advisory board - get on with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 12 January , 2013 Share Posted 12 January , 2013 Without wishing to appear a heretic, I wonder if by 2018 many/some people will have long had their fill of the Great War? Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Barker Posted 12 January , 2013 Share Posted 12 January , 2013 Well Hew, you are on that advisory board - get on with it! I couldn't agree more. I felt just that when he spoke in Oxford recently. It's important for all of us with an interest to step up and take responsibility for what is planned as I described above. We are not on the outside looking in, having concerns about what the government is planning. I met Murrison recently. He's looking to support the lead given by organisations like museums, WFA, the people who use this board. You bet war weariness will have set in by 2019! lol Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2013 Share Posted 15 January , 2013 IMHumbleO. Without forgetting the dead, what we "should" be remembering and CELEBRATING is the honour of those soldiers who lived, fought, learned,developed and battled their way to victory. There were far more of them than the "lost generation" often referred to (and whom I am sure the centenary will be all about) whilst we procrastinate. It is to them that we owe the honour of CELEBRATING their achievements and ultimate victory over a militaristic Imperial Germany. It is time to stop mourning the dead "as the only way of remembrance" and to start remembering the achievements of those that ultimately led us to VICTORY. That includes the start, the middle and the end of the war !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 16 January , 2013 Share Posted 16 January , 2013 Did anyone else see the spot on BBC 1's "One Show" yesterday, regarding the project to refurbish HMS Caroline? Dan Snow. And Trevor McDonald. And mention of 1 July 1916. No Sue Perkins but I bet she was held in reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 January , 2013 Share Posted 16 January , 2013 It's starting to remind me of the (very) old I'm Sorry, I'll Read That Again sketch in which Tim Brooke-Taylor, as a rather effete Corporal in a GW spoof, was told to go over the top ... he went very OTT. Personally if this dissolves into some form of sleb-fest on the Beeb I shall be seeking a neutral state to hide in until peace breaks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 16 January , 2013 Share Posted 16 January , 2013 I hope it will be over by Christmas ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 16 January , 2013 Share Posted 16 January , 2013 One thing is for sure: however excellent (or otherwise) the commemorative events are, there will be people (and, dare I say, some who are members of this forum) who will be (highly) critical. One can't please all the people all the time. And there will be those who will be disappointed, even aggrieved, that their particular interest doesn't get what they would consider to be due recognition. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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