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Beau Geste

What are they worth?

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Beau Geste

The priest in my church has a relative's four WW1 medals. I haven't seen them yet but I'm assuming they are the 1914 and '15 Stars, the British War Medal and the Victory medal. He also has a "plaque" (his word) of some description that came with the medals. Two questions: what would they be worth if he chose to sell them and is Ebay the best place to advertise them ?

Harry

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IanA

It would be wise wait until you see them before speculating on what they're worth. I'm no expert, but I don't think a man would be given both the '14 and '15 stars - one or the other. So you may have a military medal which would hike the value considerably. The rank and unit of the holder would also have a bearing.

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keithmroberts

Also the date of death. I'm no collector, but I'm aware that a casualty from some units, killed say on 1/7/1916 would attract a considerable premium.

Keith

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Beau Geste

Also the date of death. I'm no collector, but I'm aware that a casualty from some units, killed say on 1/7/1916 would attract a considerable premium.

Keith

Thanks Keith, I'm expecting him to pay me a visit with them within the next 48 hours so I'll know more then. We spoke immediately at the end of the church service so I didn't have a lot of time to ask questions. I did ask him to write down the number rank and name of the relative who earned them but when I got home I found he's written HMS London !! Was HMS his initials or what ? He said his relatve had served in the King's. It's all a bit vague but I'll know more in the next day or two

It would be wise wait until you see them before speculating on what they're worth. I'm no expert, but I don't think a man would be given both the '14 and '15 stars - one or the other. So you may have a military medal which would hike the value considerably. The rank and unit of the holder would also have a bearing.

Thanks Ian. I have to admit that my first thought was that " I can probably guess what three of them are but a fourth !!!!" Then, not knowing that one didn't get both stars I assumed it was more likely to be a campaign medal than one awarded for bravery. Let's hope you're right and it is an MM.

Harry

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kenf48

I'm not a collector either but my local auction house has a militaria section in it's 'Fine Art and Antiques Sale' and often includes WW1 groups - what is interesting is the variation in price according to condition/research and other factors

as an example here are the results from a recent sale I've no idea how representative they are of the market

https://www.easylive...gory=6BFA3798A4

Ken

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Beau Geste

I'm not a collector either but my local auction house has a militaria section in it's 'Fine Art and Antiques Sale' and often includes WW1 groups - what is interesting is the variation in price according to condition/research and other factors

as an example here are the results from a recent sale I've no idea how representative they are of the market

https://www.easylive...gory=6BFA3798A4

Ken

Thanks Ken,

Let's hope the fourth medal is an MM !!

Harry

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Steven Broomfield

Could equally be a Long Service Medal or another General Service-type medal.

Mind, if he was called H M S London he could have been a matelot.

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auchonvillerssomme

Or a missing VC!

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Beau Geste

Could equally be a Long Service Medal or another General Service-type medal.

Mind, if he was called H M S London he could have been a matelot.

I know but I'm trying hard not to think in those terms, I did say that I asked him which regiment he served in and his answer was "The Kings". There are a lot of possibilities wrapped up in this one. Hopefully, it will work out OK in the end. Anyway, thank you for your input Steven.

Or a missing VC!

God Bless you. What a thought! If only.

Harry

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IanA

I did ask him to write down the number rank and name of the relative who earned them but when I got home I found he's written HMS London !!

Harry

Pte Samuel London of the King's Regiment, died on the 21st August, 1918 which might explain your 'plaque'. He is buried in Railway Cutting Cemetery, Courcelles-le-Comte. Just a thought.

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Beau Geste

It would be wise wait until you see them before speculating on what they're worth.

Your advice was spot on Ian. He phoned me last night to say he had got it wrong. There are only three medals and they are the usual trio.

Sorry everyone for wasting your time.

Harry

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Staffsyeoman

1914-15 Star Trio and plaque to Infantry, not for 1914, First Day of Somme and so on: the average is about £400.

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Beau Geste

1914-15 Star Trio and plaque to Infantry, not for 1914, First Day of Somme and so on: the average is about £400.

Well, that's not bad ! According to the information I have been given, he signed on on 1 September 1914 and served with the 24th Bn The London Regiment. I intend phoning him and going across to his home to see things for myself. When I know more I'll get in touch.

Harry

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Beau Geste

I have just collected the medals (the 1914-15 Star trio) and the "Certificate 0f Diembodiment on Demobilisation" for Pte 720586 Albert Edward Jarvis of the 24th London Regiment. The latter shows that he was born in 1893 and was attested on the 1st September 1914. It goes on to say he was "Disembodied" on 20th February 1920 in consequence of Demobilisation".

I have to admit that I've never come across the term "Disembodiment" in this context so if anyone can shed some light on this concept I'd be grateful.

The leather pouch that holds the medals etc also has an unused "Carte Postale" showing "HMT Menominee in Stormy Weather".

There is no sign of a "plaque" despite the fact that that was what the owner said when he approached me regarding the medals etc.

There is something else that I don't understand: the medals have been engraved around the edges of course but instead of his Army Number 720586, followed by his rank, name and regiment that I fully expected to find there, there is the number 2384. I intend applying for his MIC but as far as I'm aware he did not serve in any other regiment except the 24th London.

I'd appreciate any help.

Harry

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bruce

I am certainly no expert in such matters, but could it be that the four digit number on his medals is his original number upon enlistment, and the six figure number would be that resulting from the re-numbering of TF men in 1917?

Bruce

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spof

Harry

The 24th London was a TF Bttalion so the two numbers are for the same man - the 6 digit one came from the 1917 TF renumbering.His MIC only shows service with 24th London and he went to France on 15.3.15.

Glen

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WilliamRev

Just a thought. On this forum we see plenty of people who put much effort (and often money) into tracing family medals and buying them back after someone in the family has thoughtlessly sold them.

You say this chap is a priest, but has he no nephew, niece or other young relative that they could be given to? I'm always sorry when I see people's instant reaction to finding family medals is to sell them.

William

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SteveMarsdin

thoughtlessly sold them......I'm always sorry when I see people's instant reaction to finding family medals is to sell them.

William

What makes you think he hasn't thought about what he's doing ?

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Beau Geste

I am certainly no expert in such matters, but could it be that the four digit number on his medals is his original number upon enlistment, and the six figure number would be that resulting from the re-numbering of TF men in 1917?

Bruce

Harry

The 24th London was a TF Bttalion so the two numbers are for the same man - the 6 digit one came from the 1917 TF renumbering.His MIC only shows service with 24th London and he went to France on 15.3.15.

Glen

Thank you both. That clears up one "mystery" for me. I've just spent 30 wasted minutes in "Discovery" trying to get Albert Edwards MIC. Before the NA changed the website (no doubt in the interest of making good things better) I rarely had any problems finding my man. Now I get palpitations each time I begin a search. Needless to say, I couldn't find him with either army number.

A further question if I might be so bold. If the numbers were changed in 1917 in such a way that he became Pte 2384 of the 24th London Regiment, why, on his Certificate of Demobilisation completed and signed by a full colonel in the Infantry Records Office on the 20th February 1920, does it give his army number as 720586?

Harry

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Beau Geste

Just a thought. On this forum we see plenty of people who put much effort (and often money) into tracing family medals and buying them back after someone in the family has thoughtlessly sold them.

You say this chap is a priest, but has he no nephew, niece or other young relative that they could be given to? I'm always sorry when I see people's instant reaction to finding family medals is to sell them.

William

What makes you think he hasn't thought about what he's doing ?

Hello William and Steve,

Actually he's a monsignor, a senior mamber of the RC church, one step below a bishop but I don't think that's important in the present context. I really don't know why I mentioned it.

What is important is that Albert Edward Jarvis was a relatively close member of his family, a person whom the monsignor loved and helped after Jarvis was crippled my a massive stroke. Jarvis and his wife had no children so she gave the medals etc to the priest something like 25 years ago and he has cherished them since then.

I don't know why he has suddenly decided to sell them. He is getting on in years and I know he has tried to pass them on to surviving members of the family without success. Apparently they just aren't interested.

I'm sure that any money received for the medals will be put to good use in his diocese.

Harry

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Ken Lees

1914-15 Star Trio and plaque to Infantry, not for 1914, First Day of Somme and so on: the average is about £400.

Wow! I should start selling mine then. Around £270-280 would be my estimate.

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kenf48

A further question if I might be so bold. If the numbers were changed in 1917 in such a way that he became Pte 2384 of the 24th London Regiment, why, on his Certificate of Demobilisation completed and signed by a full colonel in the Infantry Records Office on the 20th February 1920, does it give his army number as 720586?

Harry

You have it the wrong way round his original number was the four digit number, and is on his medal because that is the number he went overseas with.

The six digit number was allocated to the 24th Bn London Regiment and there is an excellent explanation of the renumbering on the LLT

http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm

and the new infantry numbers http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

The other question (post 14) regarding 'disembodiment' a TF soldier (pre- war a part time reservist) was 'embodied' for active service and 'disembodied' when that period ended. Usually they signed up for a limited period (typically 4 years) but of course during the war few were let go and so essentially 'disembodied' in 1920 was discharged at the end of hostilities,or 'on demobilisation'.

There are incidentally 36 pages of Service Record on Ancestry confirming the renumbering.

Headlines - he received a gsw to the leg shortly after arrival in France in May 1915 (very faded) then the following year was hospitalised with debility,neurasthenia and measles. In 1917 he was posted to Salonika where he contracted malaria. 'Twas a wonder he was still standing!

(The London Regiment can on occasion dumbfound all but the most dedicated researchers!)

Ken

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spof

Harry

He was originally 2384 and renumbered to 720586 in 1917.

There are 36 pages of his service record on Ancestry. He was in France with 1/24 and was wounded in his head and leg on 26.5.15 and returned to England until JAn 1916. He went back to France until May 16 and was back in England until Dec 16 when he went to Salonika where he got malaria in June 17 and spent most of the rest of the war in Egypt. He somehow ended up in the British Army on the Rhine and returned finally to England in 1920.

He listed his gather Alfred as NoK and was living in Clive Street, Dulwich, SE London. It appears from the 1911 Census he was born in 1893 and was living with his father, mother Sarah and younger sister Elsie.

Glen

PS I see Ken has added some info as well

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Beau Geste

You have it the wrong way round his original number was the four digit number, and is on his medal because that is the number he went overseas with.

The six digit number was allocated to the 24th Bn London Regiment and there is an excellent explanation of the renumbering on the LLT

http://www.1914-1918...renumbering.htm

and the new infantry numbers http://www.1914-1918...ng_infantry.htm

The other question (post 14) regarding 'disembodiment' a TF soldier (pre- war a part time reservist) was 'embodied' for active service and 'disembodied' when that period ended. Usually they signed up for a limited period (typically 4 years) but of course during the war few were let go and so essentially 'disembodied' in 1920 was discharged at the end of hostilities,or 'on demobilisation'.

There are incidentally 36 pages of Service Record on Ancestry confirming the renumbering.

Headlines - he received a gsw to the leg shortly after arrival in France in May 1915 (very faded) then the following year was hospitalised with debility,neurasthenia and measles. In 1917 he was posted to Salonika where he contracted malaria. 'Twas a wonder he was still standing!

(The London Regiment can on occasion dumbfound all but the most dedicated researchers!)

Ken

Brilliant Ken,

Thanks a million. That makes a great deal of sense.

Harry

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Beau Geste

Harry

He was originally 2384 and renumbered to 720586 in 1917.

There are 36 pages of his service record on Ancestry. He was in France with 1/24 and was wounded in his head and leg on 26.5.15 and returned to England until JAn 1916. He went back to France until May 16 and was back in England until Dec 16 when he went to Salonika where he got malaria in June 17 and spent most of the rest of the war in Egypt. He somehow ended up in the British Army on the Rhine and returned finally to England in 1920.

He listed his gather Alfred as NoK and was living in Clive Street, Dulwich, SE London. It appears from the 1911 Census he was born in 1893 and was living with his father, mother Sarah and younger sister Elsie.

Glen

Again superb. All I have to do now is find it on Ancestry. Hope it's easier than trawling through the new "Discovery"

Most grateful Glen.

Harry

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