Shoulder Chains

[celebrinthil]

Dear all

I have recently been discussing the issue of the wearing of shoulder chains at the front. As you'll know many Indian cavalry regiments had shoulder chains on their uniforms but the only pictorial evidence I have seen of these being worn in France is on a couple of Staff officers.

Please can anyone shed any light on the subject? I suspect they may have been remove for field service but cannot be sure.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[squirrel]

Mr Broomfield is your man for information on this. I would suspect that chain mail epaulettes would be worn by officers of cavalry units and worn on what kit they had when they arrived in France.

It would seem to be entirely sensible to remove them when in the front line and when SD was bought, not to have these epaulettes fitted.

[Steven Broomfield]

Sorry - I've been ignoring this on the basis I didn't know!

Actually, I have been looking at photos, so I'll try and pose a feasible-sounding answer soon.

[Old Owl]

Mr Broomfield is your man for information on this. I would suspect that chain mail epaulettes would be worn by officers of cavalry units and worn on what kit they had when they arrived in France.

It would seem to be entirely sensible to remove them when in the front line and when SD was bought, not to have these epaulettes fitted.

I would agree that chain mail epaulettes would not have been worn in the front-line generally, apart possibly from the very early part of the war. It is of course possible that the Cavalry units of the Indian Army may have worn them?

Of course I could be proved wrong.

[Steven Broomfield]

Shoulder chains seem to have originated in the Indian Army, as protection against sword cuts to the shoulder, and (like so many things) were adopted by British units. I have a feeling I've seen a photo of Indian sarriving at Marseilles still wearing them, so I'll keep looking.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I have recently been discussing the issue of the wearing of shoulder chains at the front.

Mike

Mike,

The caption for this photograph, was that it is of WW1 Military Mounted Police ? and as you can see, one of them is wearing an excellent set of shoulder chains.

Regards,

LF

[Chief_Chum]

"The caption for this photograph, was that it was of WW1 Military Mounted Police"

...but the fact that they all have Great War medal ribbons shows it is, in fact, post-war.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

"The caption for this photograph, was that it was of WW1 Military Mounted Police"

...but the fact that they all have Great War medal ribbons shows it is, in fact, post-war.

That is why I mentioned the caption - as we know, so much for photo captions! - nevertheless a fine set of shoulder chains.

Regards,

LF

[celebrinthil]

Thanks for your replies all.

I have attached a few photos I have acquired - the photo of the lancer regiment seems to show the BO wearing chains (not clear if the IO or the sowars are though). All are Indian army (it's Indian army I am trying to confirm on).

Cheers

Mike

[Steven Broomfield]

"The caption for this photograph, was that it was of WW1 Military Mounted Police"

...but the fact that they all have Great War medal ribbons shows it is, in fact, post-war.

Technically they are WW1 Military Police. It's just that the photo was taken later (if you see what I mean)

[Steven Broomfield]

Here's a picture of Jacob's Horse which I (like LF) downloaded from the interweb some time ago. It was, I believe, taken in France shortly after the regiment arrived; the use of Indian-issue uniform would support that. I suppose it "proves" that the regiment arrived sporting shoulder chains, but I would find it difficult to believe they wore them in the trenches, and I am pterry certain sure that I have never seen them in use in SD.

The photos of the officers wearing them are, I would suspect, of staff officers.

I'll have a look tonight when I have a bit more time and see if I can find anything.

[celebrinthil]

Many thanks Steven.

I suspect that there were a variety of practices - I can well imagine that cavalry actually acting as such would be less worried about removing them than a cavalry regiment "in the trenches" where snipers were more of a danger. That said I recall reading somewhere that both the British and Indian officers of Skinner's Horse were inordinately fond of their buckle plates and badge on their Sam Brownes (rather then the more conventional two pin arrangements) but the only photographic evidence I have seen is of "Fruity" Metcalfe taken in 1919, complete with buckle plate, badge and shoulder chains....

I also understand that British Officers in Indian regiments took to wearing their pagris in SD to make themselves less of a target for snipers.

[Steven Broomfield]

Although I have also read an account (Grimshaw?) who says that the pagri/lungi was a ridiculaous item of dress. I'll check this evening.

[celebrinthil]

Yes - I think Grimshaw said that the first thing he used to do after a squadron gallop past was to look back and see who'd lost their pagris! Interestingly, in his account pagri tying sessions were held alongside activities like grenade practice. Strange world, but I'm biased towards the wearing of pagris as they are both stylish and comfortable....

[Steven Broomfield]

^{I think I'll stick to my cycle helmet.}

[FROGSMILE]

Although worn by British units too, shoulder chains were a particular tradition of Indian Army mounted units and were apparently reputed to have, by losing his arm to a tulwar cut, 'inspired' the idea of General Sam Browne, of leather cross belt fame, whilst he was a junior officer with 2nd Punjab Irregular Cavalry (later 22nd Sam Brownes Cavalry (Frontier Force)).

[Chief_Chum]

"Technically they are WW1 Military Police. It's just that the photo was taken later (if you see what I mean)"

A splendid response!

[Steven Broomfield]

Ay theng yow.

[Guest robertfleming]

King Edward's Horse (The King's Overseas Dominions Regiment) also wore shoulder chains on their parade uniforms, as in the following image:

[auchonvillerssomme]

What about this chap?

[Khaki]

Was the wearing of chain mail epaulettes regiment specific, or personal choice, from memory the use of them was more prevalent pre GW especially the heyday appears to be during the Boer War ?

khaki

[FROGSMILE]

Was the wearing of chain mail epaulettes regiment specific, or personal choice, from memory the use of them was more prevalent pre GW especially the heyday appears to be during the Boer War ?

khaki

I have never seen them on British soldiers 02 SD, khaki, and all the pics of ORs above (less Indians) show undress frocks.

[Khaki]

Hello FROGSMILE,

I descended on my library with a mission and the lack of photographic evidence supports what you said, in fact the only thing that my search revealed was the dearth of material on British cavalry regiments of the GW.

khaki

[FROGSMILE]

Hello FROGSMILE,

I descended on my library with a mission and the lack of photographic evidence supports what you said, in fact the only thing that my search revealed was the dearth of material on British cavalry regiments of the GW.

khaki

Yes, there is a dearth I agree. In fact I have seen more images of cavalry in this forum than anywhere else. I believe that the 2nd Boer war left the cavalry with no illusions and they realised that there would be little use for shoulder chains.

The same degree of pragmatism cannot be said for Indian cavalry, whose recent experience had been different.

[Khaki]

I can't say for sure, and I don't have any supporting photographs, but didn't the early Legion of frontiersmen wear shoulder chain mail??

khaki