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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

It's got everything!


Dan Brock

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The regiment was "officially" called the Royal WELSH Fusiliers between 1914 and 1918.

Apparently, WELCH (an archaic spelling) was still used "unofficially" during this period.

You pays you money (probably a great deal) and you takes your choice.

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Hi,

I think it is a fake, I saw a topic somewheer on these trench clubs 'made in France', actually I never saw one with the name of the regiment

regards,

Cnock

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Hi,

I think it is a fake, I saw a topic somewheer on these trench clubs 'made in France', actually I never saw one with the name of the regiment

I think also that it is a fake.

Anton

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The Broad Arrow in use in WW1 was usually 3 converging wedges, not parallel grooves like these. The thing looks OTT to me.

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Can someone please tell me that this item is NOT FOR SALE ... 'cos if the MODS see this thread they may well be having kittens ... haven't any of you read THIS announcement.? :hypocrite:

Cheers, S>S

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There is nothing to say that it is for sale. If under these circumstances it still cannot be discussed then we might as well give up on discussing any item of equipment.

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Centurion is correct. This item is not so far as we can tell involved in a commercial enterprise, and therefore there is surely no reason while that is the case, why it cannot be discussed freely.

Keith Roberts

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Hi,

I think it is a fake, I saw a topic somewheer on these trench clubs 'made in France', actually I never saw one with the name of the regiment

regards,

Cnock

I can just (but only just) see that a soldier might put the regiment's name on (especially if the thing was made in the battalion workshop) but not the date. I can see why a faker might put a date on in order to establish a dodgy provenance. It's a bit like a Roman coin with 10 BC on it (and yes someone did make some!).

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It's possible to forge or fake almost anything. One can almost never be 100% sure. However it is often possible to be 99.9 % sure of many items by checking things like makers marks, proof marks etc . The very construction is often a useful guide ( eg building a fake WW1 vintage military pistol from scratch is no minor feat and the cost may well exceed the market value of the genuine article) except when fakes have been produced on an industrial scale (as for example East Germany once did with some rare high value vintage cameras - well it makes a change from Swedish furniture). None of this applies to improvised trench weapons. What a soldier could put together in a dug out or local workshop using fairly basic tools and materials a faker can duplicate easily on a bench in a garage today. There was no standard design. Ageing is no clear guide (how does one tell a baton on which various bits of ironmongery were applied in 1916 from a plain baton of about the same age to which various bits of old iron were applied in say 1996?). I would contend that in the case of trench clubs it is impossible to be sure of distinguishing a 'good' fake from the real thing (although I suspect that many fakes are more "ghoulish" than the real thing). Collecting trench clubs is very much a 'mug's' game'

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Dan, you soooooo need to buy that Trench Club! I’d be super jealous…no really…OK not-so-much. What’s next, a trench club with the individual wielder's name, rank, service number, home address, blood type, and clubbing arm's preference marked on it. Hey, that’s not a bad idea…there’s one born every minute eh?

Of course I received my latest comeuppance with the purchase of the “Oddball French Trench Spike” so I will skulk off into the shadows….sanctuary…Sanctuary!

Regards,

Lance

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I can just (but only just) see that a soldier might put the regiment's name on (especially if the thing was made in the battalion workshop) but not the date. I can see why a faker might put a date on in order to establish a dodgy provenance. It's a bit like a Roman coin with 10 BC on it (and yes someone did make some!).

How much more unlikely is it to have the Broad Arrow - the mark of official WD acceptance on it?

As if.

Regards,

MikB

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Here's a genuine trench club, I made earlier! It is a club and it has been in a trench.

Gareth

Ah, but the gearteeth were hobbed using a technique not developed until 1927... :D

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Pete

Impressive collection!

Re your Grandad George Richard Knight MM in RWF. My RWF notes indicate nil records from what I can see on the number. However, I have him on three separate RWF wounded lists, 1 x 1916 and 2 x 1918. The 1916 one is likely to be from the Red Dragon crater incident where he got his MM. Contact via PM if you haven't got this info and you feel it is of use to you.

Hywyn

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Well Pete, it appears that you have every thing - plus this club.

It really looks good and, minus the extraneous "text", would have been convincing.

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Pete

Impressive collection!

Re your Grandad George Richard Knight MM in RWF. My RWF notes indicate nil records from what I can see on the number. However, I have him on three separate RWF wounded lists, 1 x 1916 and 2 x 1918. The 1916 one is likely to be from the Red Dragon crater incident where he got his MM. Contact via PM if you haven't got this info and you feel it is of use to you.

Hywyn

Absolutely Hywyn,

PM sent

Regards

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How much more unlikely is it to have the Broad Arrow - the mark of official WD acceptance on it?

As if.

Regards,

MikB

Unless - and I've caught myself thinking of alternatives here - the stamped-up sleeve originated on some other piece of equipment, such as shovel or something, which was genuinely regimentally marked, dated and Broad Arrowed, and then subsequently cannibalised to make the trench-club?

But I can't think of anything obvious with a shank or sleeve of that diameter.

And a further counterargument to that is that soldiers would not be permitted to risk giving unit information to the enemy on a piece of kit that might easily be lost behind enemy lines, so a trench-craftsman making such an object would surely obliterate any such markings.

Regards,

MikB

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I wonder if the sleeve is a piece of lead drain-pipe. That would make it easy to stamp and being soft would explain how beat-up it is.

In making it, I would think that using period, plumbing supplies would add a nice touch of realism.

Is it lead, Pete?

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Yes Dan it is lead.

What strikes me is that is is not actually that wieldy or heavy at the clubbing end. You would most likely scratch and cut someone with it rather than cave their skull in!

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Enjoyed your collection photo's, so much so, that when i went back I could not immediately locate the post that I saw them on. Would it be possible to show your collection on the thread "Militaria Displayed" on this forum?

regards

khaki

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