Lloyd Williams 18899 'B' Coy 13th Royal Welsh Fusiliers. May 1

[Ladypd44]

I have just found a photo of my great Uncle Lloyd Williams 18899 from Gerlan, Bethesda in North Wales. He was serving with RWF and I have a photo of his head stone in Essex Farm Cemetry. He was killed on May 12th 1917 aged 26.

I have letters written by Lloyd from the trenches and sent to my Grandfather, who was a Gunner at the time, and several postcards that say he was in good health when they were sent.

I dont know anything other than this, and would be very grateful if anyone could give me any information or links that would help me to understand what happened to him and where he was in WW1.

My son is currently serving with RWF based in Chester, and has just returned from his second tour of duty in Afghanistan, and we are really interested in the history of the family and their service with RWF.

Thank you

[asanewt]

Good image for his entry on the Bangor Memorial Arch. Google it and select first entry for Bethesda on the choose village/town menu.

Lars, Will, Lst etc will be along soon.

[widavies]

Hi,

The 38th Division were stationed in the Boesinghe area at this date in time and were involved in training and simply holding the line while making preparations for the upcoming 3rd Ypres Campaign (Passchendaele) which started on 31st July 1917. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the 13th Bn RWF War diary during this period but maybe Hywyn or Lars could help you further to find out the circumstances of your relatives demise.

Regards

Will

[Bernard_Lewis]

My book on the Swansea Pals gives an idea of where the 38th (Welsh) Division went and what it did after arriving in France in December 1915.

It would include the attack on Mametz Wood (10 July 1916) and Third Ypres (Passchendaele, 31 July 1917) though by then it was too late for Lloyd, I'm afraid.

Bernard

[Ladypd44]

Thank you Jules William and Bernard for your help.

I have discovered that he probably died at Boesinghe as you say. There are very interesting videos on U Tube of the Lost Battle of Boesinghe. In one of the videos, they are preparing to build an industrial estate on the land in 2000, and they exhumed a skeleton and find a RWF badge. They identify him as one of the lost 38th Welsh Division RWF.They also clear out a bunker that had been filled in with mud 80 years ago. Very interesting what they find down there!

As Essex Farm is Boesinghe he would have been here. I dont know why, but I get the feeling he was gassed. There seem to have been a lot killed that day. I may be wrong.

In the letters he writes he refers to the trenches and how bad it is. He tells my Grandfather to sort his teeth out before he goes ou,t as the biscuits are hard. I believe they were!

He also refers to his ponies in Llanllechid - Cae Mawr. They were ferral ponies I think, and he had marked their ears to recognise them. He believed someone he knew had found one of his ,and he told them that he would pay him £1 for every pony he found and kept for him for when he returned home.

Does anyone know anything about the ferral ponies in Llanllechid? ( not military....but worth asking I think!)

Thank you for the help I have received which has helped me understand a lot, but if anyone can help me further or point me in the direction of books or websites or museums etc I would be very very grateful.

Paula

[Ladypd44]

For anyone who may be as interested as I am......http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/get_started/boesinghe_01.shtml is very very interesting also.

Paula

[clive_hughes]

Paula,

Hopefully member Hywyn will be along shortly, who has a large database on the RWF men and also an interest in the Bethesda-Llanllechid-Gerlan area!

His Medal Index Card states he landed in France on 1 December 1915, which fits with the arrival of units of the 38th Welsh Division.

Soldiers Died in the Great War states born Glyn Ceiriog, Denbighshire; enlisted Llandudno; next of kin resident Gerlan, Carnarvonshire. Killed in action 12 May 1917, France & Flanders. The battalion was raised in 1914 and known as the North Wales "Pals". After the action at Mametz Wood on the Somme in July 1916 the Division was sent to hold the line of the canal to the north-east of Ypres, and did so until July-August 1917.

Clive

[LarsA]

Essex farm is not far from Pilckem. "quiet" in may 1917, it was the location of an advanced dressing station.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/ypres-salient/cemetery-essex-farm.htm

ATB,

Lars

[widavies]

Having looked at the casualty lists for the 13th bn RWF suffered during this period there are very few deaths being reported which indicates the fact that the 13th Bttn was indeed being rested and trained ready for the upcoming offensives in July 1917. The next caualties either side of his death by date are as follows:-

COZENS, FRANK WILLIAM

Rank: Private

Service No: 56054

Date of Death: 03/05/1917

Age: 25

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers 13th Bn.

Grave Reference II. C. 10.

Cemetery MENDINGHEM MILITARY CEMETERY

PARKER, THOMAS DOUGLAS MEYRICK

Rank: Private

Service No: 17535

Date of Death: 22/05/1917

Age: 19

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers 13th Bn.

Grave Reference IV. B. 35.

Cemetery BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY

Regards

Will

[Ladypd44]

I would just like to thank everyone who has replied to me with information on my Great Uncle.

I'm going to continue researching and find out about him and his life. So interesting..... and so sad such a lovely young man was so brave like so many others out there.

Thanks again

Paula

[Ladypd44]

I now have Lloyds medals. Thank you Matt Lucas.

Does anyone know if there is anyway I can find out what actually happened to Lloyd? I know he is buried in Essex Farm and that he was killed in action but that's it! Surely there must be a way to find out more information.

Please can anyone come up with any ideas?

Thank you

[Hywyn]

Paula

As you will have seen from the War Diary I sent you the battalion was in line that day and they were bombarded in the morning etc. The chances are then that he was killed during this bombardment. Sadly, by this time of the War the Diary did not note casualties.

I can't see anything further in the North Wales Chronicle over and above what I sent you. Sometimes the families received letters from Officers, colleagues or the Chaplain. Maybe there is one amongst the paperwork you referred to. If you haven't had time to go through them all it might be worth flicking through.

Hywyn

[Guest Pensam]

Hi, my daughter Ruth is going to the battle fields for a school trip. We have had this picture in the family which is a war wedding in 1916.

My grand father, Pensam Thornton is on the far left. I am not sure which one is Lloyd Williams but I do know he was the one of the three that did not make it back. However we do not know that this is our Lloyd Williams. I know he was from North Wales. We have a picture of him within e wedding photo.

So we need some help!

Ruth would like to lay a wreath at his grave if it is possible.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

Charles P Boardman

[asanewt]

Hello Pensam. Your Lloyd Williams is a different man. Have sent you a message which will take you to definitive

entries for him.

Don't want to spoil the buzz by putting it here unless you need further assistance.

Maybe worth a separate post for him.

[Welsh Poppy]

On 02/11/2014 at 19:20, Guest Pensam said:

Hi, my daughter Ruth is going to the battle fields for a school trip. We have had this picture in the family which is a war wedding in 1916.

My grand father, Pensam Thornton is on the far left. I am not sure which one is Lloyd Williams but I do know he was the one of the three that did not make it back. However we do not know that this is our Lloyd Williams. I know he was from North Wales. We have a picture of him within e wedding photo.

So we need some help!

Ruth would like to lay a wreath at his grave if it is possible.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

Charles P Boardman

 

[Welsh Poppy]

I am researching Richard Lloyd Williams, born at Blaen y Nant in Trefriw, for a village project for the Armistice 2018, and I think he is the man you are looking for as your grandfather, Pensam Thornton's sister, Eva, was married to his brother Jesse.  Pensam was staying in the family home in Trefriw in 1911, when he was a medical student.  We may be able to exchange information.  Please contact me if I can help.