London Regiment (The Rangers)/ 12th London Rifles 8 May 1915

[Spackman]

Hi,

I am researching my 1st Cousin (once removed)

Private Raymond William Claxton No 1586

12th London Rifles also recorded elsewhere as the London Regiment (The Rangers)

Killed in action France and Flanders 8 May 1915

Recorded on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, Panel 54.

Any details of the action which the Regiment/Battalion were involvemed in (or just prior to) the 8th May 1915 would be appreciated.

Thanks very much

Andy Claxton

[IPT]

Frezenberg Ridge, 2nd Battle of Ypres .

In Sir John French's despatch of 15th June, regarding " The Battles of Ypres,1915,"

which commenced on the 22nd April of that year with the great "gas attack," he mentioned

two battalions of the 56th Division. As to the fighting on 8th May, quoting Sir Herbert Plumer, '' A

counter-attack was launched at 3.30 p.m." " The 12th London Regiment, on the left, succeeded, at

great cost, in reaching the original trench line, and did considerable execution with their machine gun."

The Territorial Divisions - http://archive.org/s...ge/142/mode/2up

[IPT]

SDGW

Name: Raymond William Claxton

Birth Place: Nr. Malvern, Melbourne, Australia

Residence: Barking

Death Date: 8 May 1915

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: London

Rank: Rifleman

Regiment: London Regiment

Battalion: 12th (County of London) Battalion (The Rangers)

Number: 1586

Type of Casualty: Killed in action

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

[widavies]

Hi Andy,

in addition to the previous information you can find an online book about the history of the 1/12 Bn Rangers at:-

http://archive.org/details/rangershistorica00whee

Below is an excerpt from the book regarding the situation faced by the 1/12th London Bn in the second battle of the Ypres.

On the night of May 2nd-3rd, the Battalion was sent to dig a trench line, fire and support trenches, on the Frezenburg ridge, and to man this, which was to become the front line in the event of a retirement from the salient at Zonnebeke taking place. This retirement took place the following night (May 3rd-4th) on which night the new line was improved. The German artillery soon found the new line on the Frezenburg ridge, and shelled it repeatedly, causing numerous casualties. Relief by the Monmouths, eagerly looked for by the troops now wearied with the strain of many days under continual shell fire, took place on the night May 7th-8th, and the Battalion retired to dug-outs behind the G.H.Q. line, arriving about 4 a.m. Heavy shelling of these dug-outs from about 6 a.m. onwards caused numerous casualties and forbade rest. At 11.15 a.m. came the order to advance in support of the Monmouths, the right of the Brigade line having been broken by the German advance. The Battalion, now about 200 strong, advanced with A, B and C Companies in the front line, led by Major Challen and Major Foucar, and D Company, under Captain Jones, in support, the Machine Gun Section with one gun only left, moving independently on the left flank. The Battalion had to pass through a gap in the

barbed wire in front of the G.H.Q. line on which German machine-guns were trained, and suffered heavily in its passage. The whole of the ground over which the further advance took place was heavily shelled, and in places exposed to heavy rifle and machine-gun fire, so that the Battalion rapidly dwindled. A small remnant pushed forward to the rise where the trench line had been and there dug in, and stayed the German advance. The Machine Gun Section under Lieut. J. K. Dunlop, operating independently, did extremely useful work and was able to bring enfilade fire to bear on the advancing Germans, until the gun was struck and dis- abled by shell fire. Of survivors there were ultimately collected by Sergeant W. J. Hornall (every Officer having been either killed, wounded, or taken prisoner), 53, mainly pioneers and signallers. All the remainder were either taken prisoner, killed, missing or wounded. The determination of the attack, it is said, was such that the Germans thought it could only have been made by troops sure of speedy and strong support, not, as in fact was the case, by practically the last remaining troops between them and Ypres, and so the enemy dug in without further advance, and thus was achieved the object for which so many gallant souls gave up their lives. The few survivors, after assisting to dig trenches in the vicinity for the next two or three days were ultimately withdrawn to the rest they so richly deserved.

A PERIOD OF TREKS.

There were many sad and many glorious days to come, but for sheer tragedy the Second Battle of Ypres stands out most prominently from the many vicissitudes through which the Rangers went during the War. The brave effort on the Frezenburg ridge had brought about the end of the original Battalion. Of the Officers and men who had so whole-heartedly and unselfishly prepared themselves for war during the days of peace, only fifty-three men, headed by Sergeant Hornall, struggled out of the shell-fire and the mud and slush in front of Ypres.

Meanwhile Lieut. Withers Green, the Battalion Transport Officer, had brought up to Ypres every man of Battalion Headquarters, every detail on whom he could lay his hands, and some reinforcements that had lately arrived under Lieut. Benns and 2nd Lieut. Bentley. By May l0th, however, the German advance had been stemmed and the eighty odd men that composed Lieut. Green's party were not needed. Accordingly they proceeded to a camp near Ypres and slept the night in some huts. It was here that Sergeant Hornall and the band of fifty-three survivors, begrimed with mud, dazed and utterly weary, reported to Lieut. Green in the early hours of May nth. They had little enough time that day to sleep and recover from their experiences, for at 5 o'clock in the afternoon the Battalion, now numbering five officers (counting Lieut. Lindop, the Quartermaster and Lieut. Uloth, the Medical Officer) and two hundred N.C.O.'s.

Regards

Will

[IPT]

I would say that your relative enlisted 11th March 1913 into the territorial force.

[Spackman]

Thank you both for the information, very much appreciated.

As I had been unsuccessful in tracing his Attestation papers I am intrigued as to where you, IPT, found his date of enlistment.

Thanks again,

Andy Claxton

[widavies]

Thank you both for the information, very much appreciated.

As I had been unsuccessful in tracing his Attestation papers I am intrigued as to where you, IPT, found his date of enlistment.

Thanks again,

Andy Claxton

Hi Andy,

The four digit number alloted to TA soldiers give a rough idea on the date of enlistment as these TA battalions were only formed after the new Territorial and Reserve Forces Act of 1907. So the after the army reforms the numbering sequence for each TA regiment started from zero for all enlisted men and by early 1913 this had reached the value of your man. This can also be cross checked by other TA soldiers with intact records that have a very similar army service number to your relative.

Regards

Will

[IPT]

Hi Andy,

As Will Says, I had a trawl through surviving papers. So it appears that your man enlisted within a day of 11th March.

1584 Arthur David Reece enlisted 10/3/1913 at Beckton. He was examined 12/3 at Chemies St, and attended annual training at Perham Down between 3/8/13 and 17/8/1913. On 7th September 1914, at Bullswater Camp, he signed the agreement to serve outside the UK. He went to France with your man 24/12/1914.

1590 William Henry Forward enlisted 12/3/1913. He too attended annual training at Perham Down between 3/8/13 and 17/8/1913. He too was mobilised at the outbreak of war, but didn't serve abroad.

I would say your man would have had a very similar experience to Reece (and would have been the same age). Attended a 2 week training camp on Salisbury Plain in 1913, and the next year mobilised, 5 months training and off to France.

[tremain]

Hello.I am seeking help tracing the details of my great uncles award of a military medal (MM) whilst with the 12th London Rangers. His name was Percy Nelson Tremain. Any help would be much appreciated and also any books that give account to the battalion in WW1. 

[mutley]

His award is shown in the London Gazette of 7th Feb 1919 page 2124 so most likely for the Battle of Amiens Aug to Sept 1918. The 12th were disbanded in Feb 18, so he will have been with either the 10th, 11th or 1st Bn.

 

Daz

Edited 30 September , 2016 by mutley

[mutley]

Are you aware that your uncles service papers are available on Ancestry?

[tremain]

Thanks for replies Daz - got service papers on Ancestry where i saw the "MM" after his name but citation not there , just dates of enlistment, shipping to France and his discharge. Details of the actual event is what I wanted but apparently only officers tended to get full citation listed. I am skim reading the Rangers historical records now and am just getting to 1918.

[ss002d6252]

11 minutes ago, tremain said:

Thanks for replies Daz - got service papers on Ancestry where i saw the "MM" after his name but citation not there , just dates of enlistment, shipping to France and his discharge. Details of the actual event is what I wanted but apparently only officers tended to get full citation listed. I am skim reading the Rangers historical records now and am just getting to 1918.

Officers wouldn't get the Military Medal (they got the Military Cross)  but at one time there were copies of all MM citations until the Germans bombed the record office.

Craig

[tremain]

Yes thats what I meant.  The official history just mentions "55 MM's awarded at the battle of passchendaele which roughly fits the dates.  he must have been one of them

 

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, tremain said:

Yes thats what I meant.  The official history just mentions "55 MM's awarded at the battle of passchendaele which roughly fits the dates.  he must have been one of them

 

 

Just to clarify, Passchendale was in 1917, it's unlikely the awards would appear in the Gazette in 1919, the general rule of thumb is the Gazette entry appears three months after the incident, the last major actions of the 12th Bn were in August/September 1918, (as previously noted) although there were a number of 'patrols' and skirmishes reported up until the Armistice.

 

The 1/12th Bn was not disbanded in February 1918 but absorbed the 2/12 and became the 12th Bn.  The medal rolls confirm he did not serve in any other Battalion.

 

The war diary for this period is on Ancestry here but unfortunately does not mention any awards, though there are a number of 'ceremonial parades'.

The 175 Brigade diary which has maps and deployments for this period, may mention awards I can't see any on quick skim but worth a look

 

You could also try local newspapers.

 

Looking at his service record on FMP there is a receipt for the MM dated June 27 1919 which says 'Herewith receipt for Military Medal awarded to me on the 14th October 1918 Received with thanks '.  The Battalion was out of the line that day and the diary simply records a change over of CO.  I suspect it was awarded for the attack on Kildare Avenue on the 21st September, medals were always more likely to be awarded for a successful action.

However it could just as easily been in August.

 

Ken

 

 

Edited 30 September , 2016 by kenf48

[tremain]

Hi Ken.  Many thanks for that - some good info to follow up! What is FMP can I ask?  

[ss002d6252]

19 minutes ago, tremain said:

Hi Ken.  Many thanks for that - some good info to follow up! What is FMP can I ask?  

FMP is the find my past website

 

Craig

[tremain]

Does anyone know where I can read up on the   "attack on Kildare Avenue on the 21st September 1918"   - as its a trench name I am getting limited results!    any help would be appreciated!

 

 

[kenf48]

As previously mentioned the Brigade War Diary has a full account of the actions of the Brigade during this period from August to September 1918

The map showing the location of Kildare Avenue/Post is here

Grid Square 22 top right

 

 

If you scroll back from the map you will see a typewritten account of the actions during this period, in context this was part of the Battle of Ephey in turn an action associated with the Battles of the Hindenburg Line.

 

The book mentioned at the top of post 4 above also gives an account of the actions from August to September 1918.

 

Ken

 

 

Edited 3 October , 2016 by kenf48

[tremain]

11 hours ago, kenf48 said:

As previously mentioned the Brigade War Diary has a full account of the actions of the Brigade during this period from August to September 1918

The map showing the location of Kildare Avenue/Post is here

Grid Square 22 top right

 

 

If you scroll back from the map you will see a typewritten account of the actions during this period, in context this was part of the Battle of Ephey in turn an action associated with the Battles of the Hindenburg Line.

 

The book mentioned at the top of post 4 above also gives an account of the actions from August to September 1918.

 

Ken

 

 

Thanks Ken.

 

[The Old Chap]

This is my great grandfather Cpl Robert Eteen. He was a machine gunner in A Coy, and was one of the few survivor of the counter attack a Frezenberg.

I believe this photo was taken in Calais after the remainder of the battalion had come out of the line at Ypres.

Reading the account of the attack was the closest I've come to reading about what he actually did in the war as his service records are no longer available.

All I know from there is that he became a member of the Machine Gun Corps and survived the Somme. Would he have stayed seconded to the Rangers??

I'm new to this forum, but thought I would share- it would be great if anyone had more information.

 

[kenf48]

10 hours ago, The Old Chap said:

 

All I know from there is that he became a member of the Machine Gun Corps and survived the Somme. Would he have stayed seconded to the Rangers??

I'm new to this forum, but thought I would share- it would be great if anyone had more information.

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

Great photo, though it could be cleaned up a bit.

It's always a better idea to start your own thread as those more knowledgeable on the doings of the 12th London Regiment may pick up your query.

 

That said your g-father was permanently transferred to the MGC on or around the 23rd November 1916.  His MGC number, 25475 is one of a group of men from the London Regiment allocated around the same time.  These men were transferred under the terms of Army Order 204 of 1916 which essentially transferred men from the Territorial Force to the regular or new army units.

 

Initially, on the formation of the MGC at the end of October 1915 the machine gunners in the Battalions within a Brigade came together to form a MG Company which was named for the Brigade.  Therefore it was likely that his first posting was to 168 Brigade MG Coy which was formed in the 56th (1st London) Division in March 1916.  The service record of 25473 Brown shows he was attached to 168 Coy on its formation in March and renumbered to the MGC in November.

The 1/12 had moved into the Division in February 1916.  As casualties increased the brigading did not necessarily last for the duration.  In 1918 the MGC was reorganised and 168 Coy became part of the 56 Bn MGC.

 

See LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/london.htm

while there have look at the home page for how to research a soldier.

 

In the photograph he is wearing the cap badge of the 1/12 London Regiment (The Rangers).  His original number was 2224 and he landed in France on the 24th December 1914 with the main body of the 1/12.  He may have been a machine gunner at 2nd Ypres but the battle predates the formation of the MGC.

 

Looking at surviving service records it appears he enlisted in August 1914.  He served throughout the war and was disembodied from the MGC on 29 February 1919.  Unfortunately with the exception of his date of formal transfer to the MGC we can't be certain of his movements. 

 

Ken

 

 

[The Old Chap]

Thanks very much for the help, Ken.

 

I'm slowly getting research together for a project I'm going to start work on soon, so keep your eyes peeled for new threads- the knowledge and expertise here will definitely come in helpful.

 

Rob

[Kitty55]

On 24/10/2012 at 20:04, Spackman said:

Hi,

I am researching my 1st Cousin (once removed)

Private Raymond William Claxton No 1586

12th London Rifles also recorded elsewhere as the London Regiment (The Rangers)

Killed in action France and Flanders 8 May 1915

Recorded on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, Panel 54.

Any details of the action which the Regiment/Battalion were involvemed in (or just prior to) the 8th May 1915 would be appreciated.

Thanks very much

Andy Claxton

 

another piece of documentation for you -  here's his medal index card (taken from Ancestry)

 

 

there is nothing else on the back of it just the writting at the top which I've included.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

 

Edited 9 May , 2017 by Kitty55
copyright notification to Ancestry for index card

[Kitty55]

And for The Old Chap

 

Believe this one is your soldier - a start for your documents - good luck with your research.

 

 

There is nothing written on the back of the card. - taken from Ancestry

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 9 May , 2017 by Kitty55
copyright notification to Ancestry for index card