Albert Ernest Worthington

[scraven]

Hi

I'm desperate to track my great uncle (see attached). He was Albert Ernest Worthington born 1890, the illegitimate son of Mary Elizabeth Worthington. He was brought up by his grandparents around the Prestwich area of Manchester and in 1911 was living with his aunt in Moston.

I know that he died in the Great War and have managed to track four different A Worthingtons although only one of them is an A E Worthington. Is there any way you can tell from his uniform which regiment he fought with? I am favouring the Northumberland Fusiliers but dont understand how he would join them from Manchester.

I know how great you all are at this stuff so please help! I want to be able to commemorate him properly come Remembrance Sunday

[Blackblue]

Here is the information from Soldiers Died:

Name: Albert Ernest Worthington

Birth Place: Reddish, Lancs

Death Date: 4 Nov 1918

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Chester

Rank: Private

Regiment: Northumberland Fusiliers

Battalion:12/13th Battalion

Number: 65043

Type of Casualty: Died

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

is this your man? This man's Medal Index Card indicates he also served with the East Yorkshire Regiment (don't think this is the badge either though).

It doesn't appear to be a Northumberland Fusiliers hat badge your man is wearing here, but he could have served with another unit. He appears to be wearing an Artificer badge. He appears to be wearing boots/leggings meaning he may have been mounted.

There is only one other Albert Worthington (200505 Private - 1/4th Bn, Loyal North Lancs) who died that was from Lancashire and he was born and enlisted in Chorley.

Rgds

Tim D

[EDWARD1]

There is a Medal Index Card for Albert Worthington 16339 Manchester Regt

64041 Northumberland Fus

BWM,Victory and 15Star

Date of entry 20/7/15

The cap badge in the photo resembles the Manchester Regiment

Eddie

[The Inspector]

Hi

He is commemorated on the Berlin South Western Cemetery. CWGC,65043 12/13th Northumberland Fus. Two public trees on Ancestry.

Regards Barry

[scraven]

Thanks for all your help! In regards to the Artificers badge, I have read that it started in 1942. As this is a WW1 photo, what job would that have given him also it appears that the badge should be worn above stripes which he doesnt have. I shall go away and see if I can get any closer to identifying his regiment. I may be back!!

[Blackblue]

The artificer/armourer badge was introduced as long ago as 1802 I believe. I don't believe it was restricted to NCOs.

The hat badge does bear a similarity to Manchesters. If he is the Manchesters man there is no record of this man dying in service. Are you sure this man died during the war?

Do you know where he was born?

[scraven]

Hi Blackblue

Yes I believe he did die. As Edward 1 says, I think he probably joined the Manchesters and was transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers at a later date and possibly the East Yorkshires as you mentioned in your previous post. I understand that this is not unlikely although it doesnt help me much!! He was born in Newton Heath, Prestwich in 1890 and I dont know whether he married or not. Not a bad looking chap so I need to find whether he caught some lovely ladys eye or not. I cant quite get my head around military research, I keep trying what I think are possible avenues but cant come up with anything conclusive. I did find that the Albert from the Fusiliers died as a Prisoner of war on 4/11/18 which is pretty unlucky. Is there anywhere I can find more information on this?

[EDWARD1]

Do you have the name surname of the Aunt in Moston. It may help in locating him on a census.

I have been unable to locate death during the war on Ancestry or CWGC. He does not appear on the SWB roll either

Eddie

[EDWARD1]

Have found an Albert in 1911 census at 33 Hanson Street Motson aged 21 occupation sail cloth weaver relation nephew to Thomas and Isabella Sinclair

Eddie

[clive_hughes]

With some hesitation;

when I first looked at the photo I thought "Welsh Regiment", because what I see isn't the Northumberlands' grenade-shape badge, or the Manchesters' civic shield of arms and its supporters and long scroll beneath, but the three Prince of Wales feathers, with the small "Ich Dien" tabs below them, and an upwardly-curved title scroll.

On his shoulders: no Fusilier grenade, or curved Manchester title, but something much shorter. Maybe too short for Welsh Regiment even? Various cavalry regiments also used PofW feathers above a similar scroll, including the 10th Royal Hussars, 12th Royal Lancers, and 3rd Royal Dragoons.

His trousers seem quite tight-fitting below the knee, unlike standard infantry ones and more like mounted troops' breeches except for an inside seam which would chafe a cavalryman something horrid. But the dark ?long boot (if that's what it is) below throws me a bit.

I know his CWGC and SDGW details don't mention either Welsh or Cavalry units, but neither is infallible. Is it absolutely certain that this is his image? Well, plenty there for me to be corrected on, but that's what I think I see anyway.

Clive

[Michelle Young]

Agree with Clive, don't see Manchesters or Fusiliers I'm seeing feathers!

http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/cardiff/about.htm

Michelle

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Albert E Worthington aged 11 is on the 1901 census living with his grandmother and grandfather and some of their children in Newton Heath He is on the 1891 census with his grandparents and their children including his mother Mary E Worthington. Same address on both 46 Vine Street, Newton Heath. A Thomas Sinclair m Isabella Worthington,Prestwich 1903. Albert's aunty?

Regards Barry

[scraven]

Hi chaps

As far as I know, this is definitely him. I have emailed the relative with the original but I'm sure that when I saw it someone had written his name on the bottom. The family you have found are correct, 1911 had him with Isabella and Thomas Sinclair in Moston and the 1901 had him with the Worthingtons at 46 Vine Street which is where he was born. I did find a marriage later in 1911 to a Bertha Palmer in the Chorlton area. I have sent for the cert but not got anything back yet.

Sorry to have landed you with such a troublesome chap but I feel he has been written off as there is no definitive record of him anywhere and I want to change that. He has a right to be recognised for what he did.

Further research has found Trooper A E Worthington on the Manchester Roll of Honour that worked for Tootal, Broadhurst, Lee Co Ltd at Ten Acres Mill and has him as Cheshire Yeomanry. Does this help?

With thanks

Sharon

[Stebie9173]

The Cheshire Yeomanry's motto was a Fleur-de-Lys with a scroll beneath it - in my opinion that is a better fit than the Manchesters for the motto/cap badge, and a Yeomanry Regiment would probably be more likely to have an articifer than an infantry battalion.

However, many Yeomanry men did transfer to (usually local) Infantry Battalions in the late Summer of 1916 once the Military Services Act gave the Army greater powers to move men to Regiments in which they were more desperately needed.

If a man transferred to a different Regiment before he embarked overseas then the earlier UK only Regiment or Corps would not be noted on the man's medal card.

Steve.