Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Good morning, Does any Pal have a copy of the above diary? I'm trying to find out what actions the battalion wa sinvolved in on the 6th April, 1918. Any help appreciated. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Bill It's deemed in the Diary to be the most disastrous day in the history of the battalion. PM me your email and I'll send you relevant pages of Dudley Ward's RWF material etc. Give me a day or so though please. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Bill It's deemed in the Diary to be the most disastrous day in the history of the battalion. PM me your email and I'll send you relevant pages of Dudley Ward's RWF material etc. Give me a day or so though please. Hywyn Thanks Hywyn. Message sent. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 It was Aveluy Wood. A and B Coys were severely hit by machinegun fire. They were not provided with the expected artillery support and continued with the original plan by attacking wellcovered machine guns.10 officers including both Company COs were killed, and 146 ORs were casualties. Do you have a name or a soldier of specific interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Hello Geraint, Yes, i've been researchng the surname Elliott. 70550 Pte.Ernest Sibbald Elliott was killed during this attack. He was 19. Thanks for the information. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Battalion history has him as Elliot, Sibbald Ernest, b Liverpool, e. Liverpool, 70550, Pte. kia F&F 6/4/18 His number's different to most in the battalion - Hywyn knows more of numbers than I. No idea as to which Company he belonged to. A or B obviously! What is curious about this action is that the men knew that they were going on a doomed action. The history states that "If there was one lesson that the war had taught us it was that no frontal attack upon a wood by a small force can ever hope to succeed." "They were mown down before they had advanced many yards." A sad day for the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Yes, that's the young man Geraint. I'll drop you a pm. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widavies Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 (edited) Battalion history has him as Elliot, Sibbald Ernest, b Liverpool, e. Liverpool, 70550, Pte. kia F&F 6/4/18 His number's different to most in the battalion - Hywyn knows more of numbers than I. No idea as to which Company he belonged to. A or B obviously! What is curious about this action is that the men knew that they were going on a doomed action. The history states that "If there was one lesson that the war had taught us it was that no frontal attack upon a wood by a small force can ever hope to succeed." "They were mown down before they had advanced many yards." A sad day for the 4th. There are 32 CWGC casualties listed for the 06/04/1918 including Elliot. then on the next 2 days a further 4 are listed most in the 2XXXXX range, Only Elliot E.S. 70550 and Dilworth W.W. 70544, fall outside this range. These numbers (70400-70600 range) are more commonly associated with the 9th Bn RWF, so this could mean that they were later replacements. Indeed some soldiers within this range besides serving in the 4th also served within the 1st, 2nd and 17th battalions. Those with numbers between 70300 and 70500 generally served with the 1/RWF, then those numbered between 70600-70800 were generally associated with 1/7th RWF. They seem to be in batches of 200 or so. In this case these may have been the standard replacement batches that were sent to front line units as replacements after training. Some stragglers may have been re-directed to other units if needed or if they were not available with the original draught for other reasons. Regards Will Edited 19 October , 2012 by Will I Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Thanks for that Will. Walter Wilson Dilworth is also listed in the 4th RWF's history as being killed on the same day. Liverpool born and enlisted. The 20xxxx numbers are more usual 4th numbers. I wonder what the connection was with the 9th? The battalion's history writen by the Adjutant who was there states that 8 officers and 65 ORs were kia, dow or missing believed dead specifically of the attack carried out opn the 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Some excellent information guys. Thank you. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 A huge swathe of 70xxx men are transfers in from other units both in BEF and MEF. They were, in the main, dispersed to various RWF battalions in blocks. RWF 70524 to 70552 (inc) seem to be transfers in to the 1st 4th Bn from the Welsh Regiment in alphabetic order A to G (but not strictly within the letter i. e. Evans is before Elliott) 9th Battalion had some blocks as well. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widavies Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 A huge swathe of 70xxx men are transfers in from other units both in BEF and MEF. They were, in the main, dispersed to various RWF battalions in blocks. RWF 70524 to 70552 (inc) seem to be transfers in to the 1st 4th Bn from the Welsh Regiment in alphabetic order A to G (but not strictly within the letter i. e. Evans is before Elliott) 9th Battalion had some blocks as well. Hywyn Thanks Hywyn, is there any way to tell if these transfers from the Welsh Regiment were old soldiers or where they new recruits? Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Will I haven't yet gone in depth with them (looking for records etc) and it's hard to say. My notes show that 70474 to 70523 seem to be predominantly SWB men into 9th RWF 70576 to 70599 seem to be predominantly Welsh Regiment men into 9th RWF If, in Anstry Medals, you put 704* in number and Royal Welsh South Bord* in Regiment then you'll get a return of 64 who served both Regiments which will include above block where you can see the SWB numbering. Repeat for 705* Ditto for Royal Welsh Regiment and 705* (53 returns) (there will some that don't apply to this sequence though) Hywyn edit: insert predominantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widavies Posted 19 October , 2012 Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Will I haven't yet gone in depth with them (looking for records etc) and it's hard to say. My notes show that 70474 to 70523 seem to be predominantly SWB men into 9th RWF 70576 to 70599 seem to be predominantly Welsh Regiment men into 9th RWF If, in Anstry Medals, you put 704* in number and Royal Welsh South Bord* in Regiment then you'll get a return of 64 who served both Regiments which will include above block where you can see the SWB numbering. Repeat for 705* Ditto for Royal Welsh Regiment and 705* (53 returns) (there will some that don't apply to this sequence though) Hywyn edit: insert predominantly Very interesting information Hywyn, I must have a closer look into this myself soon. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Many thanks to all the informative replies. Much appreciated. I should have added (sorry) that Ernest previously served as 64656, Welsh Regiment. Thanks guys. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Chap Posted 19 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2012 Just like to say a massive public thank you to Geraint and Hywyn for their help. It's very much appreciated. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 February , 2015 Share Posted 20 February , 2015 Bill I have the parents, and ancestry, of Ernest Sibbald Elliott, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, and his brother Arthur Elliott, of Liverpool . Their father [born County Donegal 1849] was a cousin of my Irish g. grandfather. Would be very pleased to exchange information, and to hear from you. Best wishes Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now