Startling omission - Frederick Roberts, died 14/11/1914 in France

[Wexflyer]

Was just looking at the CWGC website and realized that a very prominent wartime death seems to be unrecorded. That of Frederick Roberts, died 14/11/1914, in France.

[keithmroberts]

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/384527/ROBERTS,%20Sir%20FREDERICK%20SLEIGH

There you are

Keith

[baorbrat]

ROBERTS, Sir FREDERICK SLEIGH

Rank: Field Marshal Date of Death: 14/11/1914 Age: 82 Regiment/Service: General Staff and Col.-Commandant, Royal Artillery, Col. Irish Guards. Awards: V C, K G, K P, G C B, O M, G C S I, G C I E Grave Reference Cemetery ST. PAUL'S CATHEDRAL

Additional Information:

1st Earl of Kandahar, Pretoria and Waterford. Born at Cawnpore, India. Privy Counsellor. Son of the late Gen. Sir Abraham Roberts, G.C.B., and the late Lady Roberts; husband of the late Countess Roberts, C.I., R.R.C., of Englemere, Ascot, Berks. Educated at Eton, Sandhurst and Addiscombe. Commissioned to the Bengal Artillery (Dec., 1851); served throughout the Indian Mutiny 1857 (V.C.); and the Abyssinian (1867-68) and Lushai (1871-72) Expeditions. Also served in the Afghanistan Campaign (1878-80) and Commanded the Kabul-Kandahar Field Force Aug.-Sept., 1880. Commanded the Forces in Ireland (1895-99); Commander-in-Chief in the South African War (1899-1900). Commander-in-Chief in India (1885-93) and at Home (1901-04). Master Gunner of St. James' Park and Colonel-in-Chief of Overseas and Indian Forces in the United Kingdom during the Great War.

Citation

An extract from the "London Gazette," dated 24th Dec., 1858, records the following:- "On the 2nd January 1858 at Khodagunge, India, on following up the retreating enemy, Lieutenant Roberts saw in the distance two sepoys going away with a standard. he immediately gave chase, overtaking them just as they were about to enter a village. Although one of them fired at him the lieutenant was not hit and he took possession of the standard, cutting down the man who was carrying it. He had also on the same day saved the life of a sowar who was being attacked by a sepoy."

[Wexflyer]

http://www.cwgc.org/...REDERICK SLEIGH

There you are

Keith

Interesting. How can that be - I searched for Frederick Roberts and he did not show up. I just tried again - still no show!

[keithmroberts]

I just searched on the date of death.

Keith

[Wexflyer]

I just searched on the date of death.

Keith

Just tried a third time, with a different date range, and now he shows up. Yet another example of how "touchy" (i.e. unreliable or oversensitive) the CWGC search function is?

[Wexflyer]

ROBERTS, Sir FREDERICK SLEIGH

Additional Information:

1st Earl of Kandahar, Pretoria and Waterford.

The CWGC have managed to misstate this - he did not hold the title of Earl of Waterford.

[Ian Riley]

The CWGC have managed to misstate this - he did not hold the title of Earl of Waterford.

I presume as with all casualties, the information is that originally given to the Imperial War Graves Commission. However, I think that it is very possibly a slight garbling in that there is only one earldom and the place names are part of the territorial designation that goes with it,

• thus he is Earl Roberts of Kandahar and of Pretoria, of Waterford (double territorial designations are not unknown as with the Earl of Oxford and Asquith - Squiffy)
  
• or he is Earl Roberts of Kanadahar and Pretoria and Waterford (triple territorial designations - rather unusual but then he was a legend in his own lifetime)
  

According to one of the peerage sites he was created 1st Earl Roberts, of Kandahar in Afghanistan and Pretoria in the Transvaal Colony and of the City of Waterford.

An Earl Roberts of Waterford would be a distinct title to the Earl of Waterford. If he was both he would have to be Earl Roberts of Kandahar and Pretoria and Earl of Waterford.. The real Earl of Waterford (aka the Earl of Shrewsbury) sits living on the Staffordshire/Derbyshire border I understand.

However, the CWGC site does have it wrong in that he was not Earl of Kandahar etc etc but Earl Roberts of Kandahar etc etc

Ian

Edited 18 October , 2012 by Ian Riley

[aradgick]

He is listed on the Ascot War Memorial as he lived on the edge of the town (near the current Heatherwood Hospital)

[NigelS]

According to one of the peerage sites he was created 1st Earl Roberts, of Kandahar in Afghanistan and Pretoria in the Transvaal Colony and of the City of Waterford.

That's also how it was given when his Letters Patent, & names, styles & titles were given in the London Gazette of 12th February 1901 Click

NigelS

[Ian Riley]

That's also how it was given when his Letters Patent, & names, styles & titles were given in the London Gazette of 12th February 1901 Click

NigelS

Never thought about the LG. Thanks!

[Wexflyer]

According to one of the peerage sites he was created 1st Earl Roberts, of Kandahar in Afghanistan and Pretoria in the Transvaal Colony and of the City of Waterford.

Ian

Just to be clear - his title was simply "Earl Roberts". The bit about "of Kandahar in Afghanistan and Pretoria in the Transvaal Colony and of the City of Waterford" is what is called a territorial designation, which is not part of the title. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_designation

[seaforth78]

I would suggest taking a look at Burke's Peerage. This is the authority.