trajan Posted 24 January , 2015 Share Posted 24 January , 2015 "When Wilkinsons closed swordmaking, there was a mass of papers ... Amongst them were Sword production records of Robert Mole ... It shows Mole's 1907 bayonet production. They made the Patt '07 bayonet from 1908 to 1911 and then in 1914 and 1915 only, My 3'16 & 9'18 MOLE 1907s... Thanks 5thBatt for making clear - in a sense - the difference between the historical and the archaeological approach to 'facts'! So, the records (history) say one thing, the artefacts (archaeology) say another. The historical record in this case is clearly imperfect when set against the archaeological record. Perhaps some GWF members will now appreciate better the archaeological approach to the study of bayonets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2015 Mole were the only wartime manufacturer to use the italic B, and M9 seems to be the inspector code. Of course the italic B stands for Birmingham Small Arms and is commonly seen on the BSA rifles. And Robert Mole was also based locally in Birmingham. S>S, As you said, Pattern 1907 Sword Bayonets made by R. Mole & Sons of Birmingham will have a ' B ' ( Birmingham ) set of inspection marks on the ricasso, and as well as M9 and the italic B, you can also add B54 and the italic B to your list. Attached are some additional photographs of my ' Mole ' Pattern 1907 Sword Bayonet's ricasso dated July 1915 with its matching Hepburn Gale & Ross 1915 dated scabbard. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2015 Mole scabbard markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2015 ' Mole ' Maker's Name ricasso mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 24 January , 2015 Share Posted 24 January , 2015 Got my camera. The 1916 MOLE This one also has EFD stamped underside between the grips. The 1918 MOLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 24 January , 2015 Share Posted 24 January , 2015 Thanks for all the photos, some interesting ones there. 5thBatt's show the regular M9/B inspection marks for BSA inspected bayonets. His 1916 example shows a '16 reissue.! LF's example shows some older style B/54 inspection marks which were a carryover from the days of RSAF Sparkbrook (1906) So one of the 'veteran' inspectors at work here. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1960 Posted 17 January , 2017 Share Posted 17 January , 2017 Hi this my Mole bayonet, I picked up at auction on an impulse buy, not in the best of condition, no scabbard, also no unit marks, but January 16 dated, this is my first bayonet,very pleased to find it's quite a rare P 1907. Hope this helps you bayonet buffs add to the history, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1960 Posted 17 January , 2017 Share Posted 17 January , 2017 Two more photos of full size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 January , 2017 Share Posted 18 January , 2017 22 hours ago, Sean1960 said: Hi this my Mole bayonet, I picked up at auction on an impulse buy, not in the best of condition, no scabbard, also no unit marks, but January 16 dated, this is my first bayonet,very pleased to find it's quite a rare P 1907. Hope this helps you bayonet buffs add to the history, cheers. Hi Sean, Welcome to the GWForum! A nice enough find, and good enough to have as a keeper until you spot a better condition one! I wouldn't turn my nose up at it if I saw one at a reasonable price - and I don't even collect P.1907's! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 January , 2017 Share Posted 18 January , 2017 Sean, for information. Now back at home and have access to books! Skennerton and Richardson, many would say the 'bible' on British and Commonwealth bayonets, say on p. 191 that by 01 04 1917, Mole had produced 24,800 P.1907's, and they suggest Mole produced about 60,000 total by the end of their WW1 contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 February , 2019 Share Posted 19 February , 2019 (edited) A very recent aquisistion, this Vickers P1907 bears the date stamp for February 1918. The bayonet is in untouched condition, the hilt shows traces of WW2 green paint, the blade has a dark patina, with some small areas of pitting. The opposite ricasso has the usual marks, plus a re-issue date of 25. It is housed in a No. 1 MK11 scabbard with teardrop frog stud, the only marks evident on this are a broad arrow stamp below the staple on the rear of the locket, and a diamond makers stamp. I think this has been discussed previously and I believe indicates WJM, but can not see this, as mark is very faint. I intend to give the blade a sympathetic clean/polish. The grips on one side are stamped with a crown, a 2 and possibly 16, again this faint. Have been looking for a Vickers, so another box ticked! Mike. Edited 19 February , 2019 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 February , 2019 Share Posted 19 February , 2019 Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 19 February , 2019 Share Posted 19 February , 2019 4 hours ago, trajan said: Congratulations! Julian, Thanks, pleased to get it at a fair price. Some odd marks on the hilt under the grips, '&' and two C's back to back, no doubt Vickers inspectors marks. Have checked the size of the clearance hole, not that much larger than standard at 4.60 mm, other P1907's are around 4.30 mm. The clearance hole on the Vickers looks bigger as the edges of the hole are bevelled, as our chum 'shippingsteel', has previously said. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 25 February , 2019 Share Posted 25 February , 2019 Would like to share my recent acquisitions with you.Vickers, Mole and as this thread is regarding scarcer Manufacturers a Remington. Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 February , 2019 Share Posted 26 February , 2019 Lovely grips on the Vickers! I do wonder when they stopped marking these? Looks like the Moles grips are marked also? Who made that scabbard for the Remington? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 26 February , 2019 Share Posted 26 February , 2019 (edited) Three nice examples there. One odd thing noticed re. blueing on ricasso of Vickers bayonets, this seems to be on a diagonal pattern, on Richard's example above, mine and another owned by a chum, that I have seen. Whereas on bayonets produced by Enfield and Sanderson, the ricasso blueing ends in a parallel line, anyone any thoughts on this? Mike. Edited 26 February , 2019 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 26 February , 2019 Share Posted 26 February , 2019 Thanks for your thoughts gentlemen. Here are some further photos which may answer your queries ??? The scabbard is not (in my opinion )original to the Remington, one would imagine they would be supplied with ones manufactured by Remington.? Which this is not.Though someone will surely put me right on the initials stamped on the scabbard.(could it be Hepple Gale & Ross?) My other Vickers has a completely Blued blade so can’t help with the Ricasso query. Though none of my P 1907s apart from the Vickers have diagonal blueing across the Ricasso.And finally there does appear to be faint markings to the grips of the Mole. Kind regards Richard. Incidentally does anyone have an interest /knowledge R.E WW1 Cavalry Swords? am waiting the arrival of a 1912 Pattern Officers Sword which I recently aquired at auction.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 27 February , 2019 Share Posted 27 February , 2019 (edited) Richard, H.G.R. is Hepburn Gale and Ross, they were in Bermondsey, London. The makers mark should be followed by a 2 digit date stamp. Mike. Edited 27 February , 2019 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 27 February , 2019 Share Posted 27 February , 2019 Thanks Mikey, I should have had a look at Skennertons prior to posting my Guess at ‘Hepple’ ☹️ Sadly cant make head or tale of the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 I was very pleased, and surprised, to find this recent addition yesterday. Had my eye out for a long time, so just had to have it. Tip slightly damaged but displays very well. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 Very nice ! 😀 looks great esp with the un waxed scabbard and stamps to grips. regards R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 9 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: Very nice ! 😀 looks great esp with the un waxed scabbard and stamps to grips. regards R. The brown matching scabbard really was the clincher for me...for once, couldn't get the wallet out quick enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 Dave, As Mr. D has said——a super pairing. We don’t often see the scabbard stampings as crisp as those! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 I have a wall where I have one of every pattern, but condition must be good...this one certainly has survived very well, the only inspection stamp I can't quite make out is the bottom left..possibly 9Z over E, which would match the scabbard inspection stamp. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 18 March , 2019 Share Posted 18 March , 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Dave, As Mr. D has said——a super pairing. We don’t often see the scabbard stampings as crisp as those! Regards, JMB After looking at the dates good chance it’s the original scabbard ? with you on the matching insp stamps Dave. Edited 18 March , 2019 by RGJDEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now