DavidG Posted 17 October , 2012 Share Posted 17 October , 2012 Hello there everyone, Does anyone know how I can find out how many Military Medals in total were awarded to members of the Tank Corps who participated in the Great War? Reading through the descriptions of the crewmembers of the various Tank Corps companies and sections on the (excellent) website [Broken link removed], I counted a total of 37 MMs mentioned as being awarded. However I do not know if this figure is accurate or complete. The reason I'm asking is that I recently purchased a Tank Corps MM for my medal collection and I'd very much like to know how scarce it is. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated... Thanks in advance. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 Hi, A quick flip though my copy of the tank corp roll of honour has about 200 pages of MM citations, about 4-5 a page - some DCM's mixed in. I'd ball park around 800 MM's to Tankies, a few more probably not listed here as they'd be HMGC. It is certainly colelctable - do you have his other medals too or just the singleton? I suspect a tank collector if the citation is good might part with 400 pounds for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 You will also find an un-disclosed number of attached men, ie: men belonging to other Regiments, Corps arms etc who were awarded MM's whilst attached to or working with the HBMGC/Tank Corps whose details do not appear in the Tank Corps ROH which I hold also. I come across them often when working in my post of representing the Tank Memorial Ypres Salient. Your medal will certainly hold more value than that awarded to a non specialist unit award and I say this with great respect. It is a collectors thing as posted above. Best of luck mate! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 18 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 October , 2012 Hi, A quick flip though my copy of the tank corp roll of honour has about 200 pages of MM citations, about 4-5 a page - some DCM's mixed in. I'd ball park around 800 MM's to Tankies, a few more probably not listed here as they'd be HMGC. It is certainly colelctable - do you have his other medals too or just the singleton? I suspect a tank collector if the citation is good might part with 400 pounds for this. Thanks for the quick feedback, ScottM. (And to you too, ChrisLock.) Just to clarify what you wrote, Scott: Does the figure you quote (circa 800) refer to MMs awarded to Tankies only during World War One, or also during other campaigns/wars? My MM was awarded to Sgt Jimmy Lindsay (2543), then part of No.1 Salvage Company, for his actions at Hooge, Belgium, as follows: "On the morning of August 27, 1917, a tank was badly ditched and left at Clapham Junction. Sgt Lindsay was in full view of the enemy and at a place which was constantly shelled. By a remarkable display of perseverance, judgement and devotion to duty, he succeeded in bringing the tank back." (This quoted from the highly-recommended website www.firsttankcrews.com, with thanks to Stephen Pope who runs the site.) Earlier in his military career, Cpl Jimmy Lindsay was one of the first Tank Corps soldiers and a crew member of Tank D8 belonging to D Company. My interest is specifically in MMs awarded to members of the first batch of soldiers drafted into the then-new Tank Corps, in 1916 (ie the initial soldiers of companies A, B, C and D). So, to get back to my question above, does the figure of 800 MMs you mention refer to these soldiers, or also to "late-comers" (for want of a better word...) into the corps and even participants in later campaigns (eg WW2)? BTW, in response to your question, unfortunately I have only the MM and not his other medals. (I've attached a couple more images of the medal.) Thanks again, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkEric Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 A quick search of the National Archives for "Tank" within WO 372/23 gives 708 results. This would include DCMs and MMs. As there are fewer than 1000 results the entire list can be downloaded as a csv file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 18 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 October , 2012 A quick search of the National Archives for "Tank" within WO 372/23 gives 708 results. This would include DCMs and MMs. As there are fewer than 1000 results the entire list can be downloaded as a csv file. Thanks, WalkEric. Could you please post the link to the National Archives where I can access this data? Also, what does "within WO 372/23" mean? (Excuse me for my lack of knowledge regarding these matters...) Thanks again, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkEric Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 This should link to the list http://discovery.nat...d=&_fr=&_st=adv Failing that if you go here - http://discovery.nat...advanced-search - enter "Tank" in 'Find all these words' - make sure you use the quotes. Scroll down to the section "Search Within" and enter WO 372/23 in the first reference field. It is important to have a space between WO and 372, this should give you 708 results which can then be downloaded as a csv by clicking on the download link at the top of the results list. hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 David, that is strictly for WW I what I mentioned to you and referenced from the book published in 1919 by the Tank corp veterans association., The tank corp as such was very different beast in WW 2. The first darft would I beleive have been Heavy Branch Machine Gun Corps, IIRC the Tank Corp was so named in early 1917. Medals are a bit mind numbing as servie and naming details can be not what you expect, based on entry into theatre, units attached to at certain points in time, last unit served with in an operational theatre, you could also be detached form your parent unit and serve almost entirely with another branch and your medals would reflect the parent unit. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 20 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2012 This should link to the list http://discovery.nat...d=&_fr=&_st=adv. Failing that if you go here - http://discovery.nat...advanced-search - enter "Tank" in 'Find all these words' - make sure you use the quotes. Scroll down to the section "Search Within" and enter WO 372/23 in the first reference field. It is important to have a space between WO and 372, this should give you 708 results which can then be downloaded as a csv by clicking on the download link at the top of the results list. hope this helps! Thanks, WalkEric, that was indeed helpful. I located and downloaded the list from the National Archives database and even found the name of my medal's recipient. As for the number of Tank Corps MM WW1 recipients, I noticed that when searching for "Tank Corps" instead of "Tank" the number drops slightly from 708 to 692. Thanks again, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 21 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2012 On 19/10/2012 at 01:59, ScottM said: David, that is strictly for WW I what I mentioned to you and referenced from the book published in 1919 by the Tank corp veterans association., The tank corp as such was very different beast in WW 2. The first darft would I beleive have been Heavy Branch Machine Gun Corps, IIRC the Tank Corp was so named in early 1917. Medals are a bit mind numbing as servie and naming details can be not what you expect, based on entry into theatre, units attached to at certain points in time, last unit served with in an operational theatre, you could also be detached form your parent unit and serve almost entirely with another branch and your medals would reflect the parent unit. etc. etc. Many thanks for the clarification and information, Scott. This is greatly appreciated. (BTW, according to the number of Tank Corps MM records found in the National Archives (circa 700) your initial ballpark guess of about 800 was quite accurate -- well done!) What I'm now trying to understand is why the number of Tank Corps MM recipients listed in the National Archives (c700) is so different from the number of MMs listed on www.firsttankcrews.com (37). My guess is that the National Archives figure covers the entire war, whereas the FTC.com figure refers only to the very first soldiers drafted into the newly-founded Tank Corps -- or, in the words of the website itself, "The soldiers who fought in tanks at the Battle of Flers-Courcelette on 15 September 1916." Hopefully, the fact that my MM was awarded to one of these first-generation Tankies (ie one of 37 such medals) makes it slightly more important than one awarded to a member of the much larger group, consisting of all the Tank Corps soldiers who fought in WW1. ;-) With your permission, I have a request. You mention that you own a copy of the 1919 book published by the Tank Corp Veterans Association, which includes the Tank Corps Roll of Honour. How is the ROH ordered -- is it chronological by date of award, alphabetical by name, etc.? The reason I ask is whether it would be possible to ask you to locate my recipient's name in the ROH and let me know what is mentioned there regarding his medal. If you can scan the relevant section and post it here, I would be very grateful. My medal was awarded to Sgt Jimmy Lindsay, 2543, No.1 Salvage Company, Tank Corps, for his actions at Hooge, Belgium on August 27, 1917. He was Gazetted on November 19, 1917. Thanks in advance, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 21 October , 2012 Share Posted 21 October , 2012 David The citation for Jimmy Lindsay ref page 188 of thr ROH "On the morning of August 27th 1917 a tank was badly ditched and left at clapham junction near Hooge. It was in view of the enemy and at a place which was constantly shelled. By a remarkable display of perseverance judgement and devotion to duty this NCO succeeded in bringing the tank back". Hope that helps Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 22 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2012 David The citation for Jimmy Lindsay ref page 188 of thr ROH "On the morning of August 27th 1917 a tank was badly ditched and left at clapham junction near Hooge. It was in view of the enemy and at a place which was constantly shelled. By a remarkable display of perseverance judgement and devotion to duty this NCO succeeded in bringing the tank back". Hope that helps Tanks3 Many thanks, Tank3. Very helpful indeed. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 25 October , 2012 Share Posted 25 October , 2012 Hi according to a book I have 604 MM and 23 Bars to the Tank Corps. This may be incorrect as there was the MM awarded to the MGC Heavy Section which I believe is not included in these figures. My estimate is less than 700 (about 630) MM and 23 Bars. 17Tankman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 25 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2012 Hi according to a book I have 604 MM and 23 Bars to the Tank Corps. This may be incorrect as there was the MM awarded to the MGC Heavy Section which I believe is not included in these figures. My estimate is less than 700 (about 630) MM and 23 Bars. 17Tankman Thanks, 17Tankman. FYI, when searching for "Tank Corps" in the relevant online database in the National Archives (ie medals awarded in the period 1914-20), the number of records one gets is 692. However this figure includes other medals (eg DCMs) and not only the MM. Also, in case of bars there may be two records for a single individual. In short, your estimate of around 650 (=630+23) MMs awarded is definitely within the ballpark. The question that remains open is how many of these MMs were awarded to the first draftees into the Corps, ie those who fought in the first tank battles in 1916. According to www.firsttankcrews.com the number is 41, but I don't know how complete their list is. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 25 October , 2012 Share Posted 25 October , 2012 David - FYI: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Tank-Corps-Book-of-Honour-Major-R-F-G-Maurice-1919-/300804051490?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4609519222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 26 October , 2012 Share Posted 26 October , 2012 I would say the First Tank Crew list is correct if you are only thinking about the first tank crews - the collectable MM are the ones to the First Tank Crews who were awarded the MM on the first day the tanks were in action - 15th September 1916. Like all medals some MMs have a higher collectable value than others. 17tankman Thanks, 17Tankman. FYI, when searching for "Tank Corps" in the relevant online database in the National Archives (ie medals awarded in the period 1914-20), the number of records one gets is 692. However this figure includes other medals (eg DCMs) and not only the MM. Also, in case of bars there may be two records for a single individual. In short, your estimate of around 650 (=630+23) MMs awarded is definitely within the ballpark. The question that remains open is how many of these MMs were awarded to the first draftees into the Corps, ie those who fought in the first tank battles in 1916. According to www.firsttankcrews.com the number is 41, but I don't know how complete their list is. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidG Posted 26 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2012 David - FYI: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4609519222 Thanks, Scott! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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