miliwis Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 Hello, I was at Kew yesterday hoping to see the war diaries for the 44 Brigade RFA (amongst others), however they were unfortunately unavailable and out for scanning. I'm looking into a Gnr. George Wishart (56951) who I'm guessing enlisted before the war and went oversees with the 44th on 16 August 1914. He died of wounds on 7 October 1914 and I'm wondering if anyone might have some kind of summary as to what this particular Brigade was doing between these dates and perhaps what was going on about the 7th October when he was wounded? Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 Scott According to the Long Long Trail at top left of this page 44Bde RFA,made up of 47/56 and 60 Howitzer Batteries and with the 2nd Division,were involved at Mons,the Marne and the Aisne between Aug and early Oct 1914.The action on the Aisne Heights occurred on 20 September 1914 and I deduce that the Division would likely have been in that area for some time prior to moving off to the Battles of 1st Ypres later in the year. You might like to read Gen French's Despatch from around this time,here: http://www.1914-1918.net/french_third_despatch.html as he covers the actions in his account. For your interest my notes for 2 Division's initial deployment as part of the BEF in Aug 1914 show that the Bde was at Brighton from mobilisation on the 4th August (it's Ammo Col was elsewhere,Preston I think)but all were together at Southampton on the 17th when they shipped out on three vessels (Armenian,Welshman and Merchant)to Boulogne.20th entrained for the front and on the 23rd were in action at GIVRY and HARVENG. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 Gnr George Wishart was in 56th Battery I seem to have noted , and a prewar regular. The war diary is a bit 'thin' although Battery diaries also exist for a few months at least.. I have some of 60th Bty but not 56th Bty I am afraid. They left the Aisne front 13th/14th October I believe. 44th Bde was listed [in 2nd Div returns] as having 2 men wounded on 7th oct.. as George is listed as died of wounds, he may be one of them; hospital for casualties of 2nd Div at this time was in Braisne I believe. in fact these are casualties I have for them on Aisne 19th September: 19th Sept – 60 Battery just N of Soupir, 47th and 56th Batteries just south of Tilleul. OR 2 wounded 20th September: OR 1 wounded 21st September: OR 1 killed, 2 wounded 23rd September: OR 1 killed 25th September: OR 1 wounded 26th September: OR 1 killed, 5 wounded 27th September: OR 1 wounded 28th September: OR 1 wounded 2nd October: OR 3 wounded 7th October: OR 2 wounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 that number suggests George Wishart enlisted c. April 1909 I would reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliwis Posted 7 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2012 Dear Sotonmate & Battiscombe, Thank you both so much for taking the time to reply to my post, it is greatly appreciated. From what you've noted, it sounds as if George was 'in the thick of it' from the off. Curiously he doesn't appear in the Scottish Service Return death indexes, although is recorded in the general army index returns. Although originally from Arbroath, his family moved to Dundee (where George apparently enlisted) and are enumerated there in the 1911 Census, although George doesn't appear at all in the census for that year. I've noticed that issues of the Dundee Courier from 1914 are slowly being uploaded to the British Newspaper Library website and I'm hoping there may be mention of him in those. I shall take a good look at French's despatch in the morning. Kind regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliwis Posted 7 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2012 Dear Battiscombe, I just posted a message and saw that you'd done similarly! If he enlisted in 1909 that might explain his absence from the 1911 census in Scotland. From what I know, George was born in 1892 which would make him about 17 in 1909. Best wishes, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 As he does not register on the 1911 census he may have been in a unit in Ireland where many units recorded men only by initials. 56th Bty was then in 50th Brigade but he does not appear to be with them then.. but 50th Brigade [by 1913] was later disbanded and while many men went to 44th Bde there was much reshuffling amongst batteries.He could have been on a 3 year term or 6 year term I think if enlisting in 1909, so may or may not have been mobilised from the reserves. My GF was also in 2nd Division artillery as it happens.. and was badly wounded on the 5th October 1914 on the Aisne.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliwis Posted 8 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 October , 2012 Dear Battiscombe, Good thought on the Irish census, I hadn't thought to check that. I'm pretty sure thats him at the Military Barracks in Dundalk with what appears to be the 30th Brigade R.F.A. The age is one year out (perhaps he said he was eighteen when he enlisted) but everything else checks out. Perhaps he was one of those who was involved in the shuffling about? Best wishes and thanks, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 8 October , 2012 Share Posted 8 October , 2012 Yes indeed! I can't spot any other link between 130th Bty and 56th Bty though... so no large-scale transfers between brigades as far as I can see. .. but both were Howitzer Brigades. .. The age difference may relate to his birth date - before or after the census date (April??). The dates often appear at variance with supposed ages in my experience. there are others with similar numbers to him.. in 128th Bty Trumpeter Alfred W Guttridge 56648 also 30th Bde in 1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 19 February , 2013 Share Posted 19 February , 2013 perhaps check if 44th and 36th batteries, or 44th and 36th Brigades RFA.. the brigades were indeed in 2nd Division. I see a Driver Leonard Tennant [75012] was in 44th Brigade [47th, 56th and 60th batteries]- i don't know which battery in 1914... *but* some men of 56th Battery later joined 36th brigade and became D Battery 36th Brigade after 44th Brigade was broken up and dispersed... ... so if you know he joined 36th Bde that seem likely to be his original battery. does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 20 February , 2013 Share Posted 20 February , 2013 I think you mean he joined 44th Brigade at Bordon .?? .. as 44th Battery was in India in 1914 I believe. Just to avoid confusion. 44th Brigade - and its 3 batteries - was indeed a howitzer brigade. so yes probably 56th Bty. as for the silks is this 36th Battery or 36th Brigade ? - as quite different things. That this could well be D battery 36th Brigade (if 1916-1917) ... but if at Fulwood in 1917 that is with a reserve battery and he would have no longer been with 36th Brigade [as it was in France]. 9th Reserve Battery was part of 2A Reserve Brigade - in Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 23 February , 2013 Share Posted 23 February , 2013 There seems to be a bit of confusion around brigades and batteries. 44 Howitzer Bde RFA contained 47, 56 and 60 Howitzer btys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 24 February , 2013 Share Posted 24 February , 2013 Have you eliminated 60 (H) bty based on knowing where 60 bty went in the 1916 reorg into bdes of 3 gun and 1 how btys? This reorg wasn't always a tidy and logical arrangement, not least due to the creation of the army field bdes. Are you sure he was never posted to another battery at some point in the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 24 February , 2013 Share Posted 24 February , 2013 It would be very interesting to see the battery/brigade emblems. I have seen a photo of 71st Bty/36th Bde in Germany .. holding a shield with some form of 'rampant lion' design. is that familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 27 February , 2013 Share Posted 27 February , 2013 I see that 171 Battery is/was known as the 'broken wheel' Battery but perhaps not 71st bty - which i cannot trace in any current RA unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Poustie Posted 15 May , 2014 Share Posted 15 May , 2014 Have you eliminated 60 (H) bty based on knowing where 60 bty went in the 1916 reorg into bdes of 3 gun and 1 how btys? This reorg wasn't always a tidy and logical arrangement, not least due to the creation of the army field bdes. Are you sure he was never posted to another battery at some point in the war? 60th (Howitzer) Battery transferred from 44th Brigade to the Meerut Division 23rd June 1915. In December 1915 the battery left France for Mesopotamia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bluemeadow Posted 6 November , 2014 Share Posted 6 November , 2014 Just to let you know that the 56th Battery RFA were stationed at Topsham Artillery Barracks in Heavitree, Devon as per the England and Wales 1911 census. The Commanding Officer was Lt Col Herbert A Brendon. I found this out as my Grandfather Emanuel Jennings was a Gunner in the 56th Battery (52481). He joined in 1908. I know that he was gassed at some point and transferred to the Labour Corps (46928) and was eventually discharged to Pension just before the end of the war. I have no idea how he managed to survive bless him. I cannot find any more information on him as his service records must have been destroyed. The only thing I could find was 2 medal cards and a Silver War Badge card. Anyway the 149th and 150th Batteries were also stationed there, though I do not know if there would have been other men from these Batteries were stationed elsewhere or if they we're complete. Sorry if I have got the terminology wrong :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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