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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

My climb up Hartmannsweilerkopf (HWK)


egbert

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Thank you, Egbert. I know where Guebwiller cemetery is. Where were those buried in Wünheimer Weg, Friedhof Kurve 7 and Pionierdorf transferred to, please? Also to Guebwiller, or Cernay, or...?

I am including this picture to add a sense of the atmosphere and terrain. I don't know which cemetery this is. The photo is simply labelled Jägerfriedhof Hartmannsweilerkopf in pencil.

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Gwyn

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Hi Egbert,

The accounts and the map really give a sense of the absolute horror Leopold managed to survive that day. I am in touch with some living members of the Levy family and will see if I can find out if Leopold had any descendants. If so, they would likely be local to me, but who knows?

I will see if the ICRC records might have give us a significant list of the specific men of JB 14 captured on HWK that fateful day.

-Daniel

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Thank you, Egbert. I know where Guebwiller cemetery is. Where were those buried in Wünheimer Weg, Friedhof Kurve 7 and Pionierdorf transferred to, please? Also to Guebwiller, or Cernay, or...?

Gwyn

As far as I could research: majority in Guebweiler but also some in Sennheim which you call Cernay.

The only memorial to the 14th Jäger-Bataillon is an attached plaque to the pyramid-shaped Jägerdenkmal (memorial) on top of the HWK as shown in my pictures.

post-80-0-85682900-1435761159_thumb.jpg

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........I will see if the ICRC records might have give us a significant list of the specific men of JB 14 captured on HWK that fateful day.

-Daniel

Maybe these French and German cards are of help. You can see which PoW camps Leopold was in:

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wonderful!

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Afterburner: all of the red line are the French jump-positions for the 21.12.1915 attack and the blue line appr. the defending position of 3./ JB 14

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The only memorial to the 14th Jäger-Bataillon is an attached plaque to the pyramid-shaped Jägerdenkmal

....

post-357-0-37642600-1435763110_thumb.jpg

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Egbert's image is better because it sets the monument in context and you can see its high position, but here's a contemporary postcard:

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Gwyn

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Here's a June 1916 German trenchmap extract showing the area depicted in Egbert's aerial shot.... note that the Jägerdenkmal is depicted on the far right of the extract. It appears to have been at the head of (or just across the track from) a small cemetery....only just noticed that. I never knew that before!

Dave

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Here's a June 1916 German trenchmap extract showing the area depicted in Egbert's aerial shot....

A not-quite-as-clear (different scale) German trenchmap extract of the same area from July 1918...

post-357-0-90102000-1435764456_thumb.jpg

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French (December 1917) trenchmap extract of the same...

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Wow. Such complexity. It would be really good if somehow your maps and Egbert's photos of the locations could be combined.

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Gwyn, we think we have identified your cemetery picture as that of Jägerfriedhof just below the summit. It is the cemetery that you can see also within this thread that forms a unity, Jäger-cemetery and Jäger-memorial. The memorial with the plaques is right in front, or depending from where you view , the memorial is right behind of the old cemetery. Just check the pictures from the first climb in this thread.

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and for Daniel: I think I hit the nail with my previous calculations where 3.Kompanie was entrenched. Sigi provided me with the following sector boundaries for the 21.12.1915. Judge yourself:

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As far as I could research: majority in Guebweiler but also some in Sennheim which you call Cernay.

The only memorial to the 14th Jäger-Bataillon is an attached plaque to the pyramid-shaped Jägerdenkmal (memorial) on top of the HWK as shown in my pictures.

attachicon.gifjdm.jpg

This photo, and Gwyn's photo of the German graves in the snow are quite powerful. These combines with the various trench maps, and the amazing aerial footage are really helping me to get a much better grasp of the area and what happened there. I hope to visit myself one day. Thank heavens for all of you, whose passion and expertise are really keeping the stories of these men alive.

-Daniel

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Leopold is proving quite tough to track down. I can not find any traces of him or his wife, other than some vague notes via Geni that they lived in Flushing. I have no date of death for him and even with her date of death, searched the various local Jewish cemeteries with no success. I have reached out to the person who manages that tree to see if they can shed any light on things.

-Daniel

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Flushing? As in Vlissingen, the Netherlands?

I grew up not 10 km from there!

Better start a new thread on Leopold, in the meantime I'll see what I can find.

JW

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Flushing? As in Vlissingen, the Netherlands?

I grew up not 10 km from there!

Better start a new thread on Leopold, in the meantime I'll see what I can find.

JW

Done! New thread created. The Flushing I referred to is here in New York, so far closer to me than to you! :)

-Daniel

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Gwyn, we think we have identified your cemetery picture as that of Jägerfriedhof just below the summit. It is the cemetery that you can see also within this thread that forms a unity, Jäger-cemetery and Jäger-memorial. The memorial with the plaques is right in front, or depending from where you view , the memorial is right behind of the old cemetery. Just check the pictures from the first climb in this thread.

Thank you, Egbert. If it's the same cemetery, my photo was clearly taken a while after yours because the trees have been destroyed. The crosses are also different: much simpler on my photo. Does that suggest that the crosses which are shown on yours were damaged and new ones were urgently erected?

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Thank you, Egbert. If it's the same cemetery, my photo was clearly taken a while after yours because the trees have been destroyed. The crosses are also different: much simpler on my photo. Does that suggest that the crosses which are shown on yours were damaged and new ones were urgently erected?

Gwyn, I am not so sure w/r to the date. But one thing is confirmed now: the location -it is definitely the Jägerfriedhof close to summit with the pyramid shaped memorial to the Jäger!

I found a picture in a regimental history that proves your picture is indeed Jägerfriedhof.

Just compare both pictures and you recognize the matching poles framing the path and the unique branch configuration of the large tree. Your picture was taken from Marthapfad (Martha trail) next to the pyramid uphill and the comparison picture was taken from uphill down to the pyramid and the lower Rhine River plains.

It is also suggested that the majority of the JB 14 kia were buried here.......

post-80-0-31081800-1435912145_thumb.jpg

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Yes, I agree and if I flip the picture it's clear. I wasn't doubting that the cemetery was the same, I was thinking that my photo could have been taken after the one earlier in the thread because the trees have been so damaged. If the trees were shot to pieces it's possible that the grave markers were damaged as well, that's why I wondered whether they had been replaced.

It seems, though, from your information, that this was the cemetery in which some of Daniel's relative's comrades would have been buried before being transferred to their final resting place. If I go past Guebwiller later on this summer, I will take some views of the cemetery there. Not being morbid, but the logistics of transferring so many casualties from a mountain location like HWK after the war must have been very challenging.

Gwyn

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It seems, though, from your information, that this was the cemetery in which some of Daniel's relative's comrades would have been buried before being transferred to their final resting place. If I go past Guebwiller later on this summer, I will take some views of the cemetery there. Not being morbid, but the logistics of transferring so many casualties from a mountain location like HWK after the war must have been very challenging.

Gwyn

Gwyn , on HWK there were 2 cemeteries dedicated to the Jäger, one in section North "Jägertanne" with dead from Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon 8, and the one with the dead from Jäger-Bataillon 14 in cemetery Jägerfriedhof with Jäger-memorial, below the summit, East-slope.

I have the full list of dead relocated from Jägerfriedhof (at Jäger-memorial) to Gebweiler war cemetery after the war. If needed for your research and photography in Gebweiler, please let me know.

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  • 3 months later...

Goodness, it looks very busy, swarming with people. I can see that they want to draw people in to the commemorations.

Thanks for marking the approximate front line and providing the link. I enjoyed the archives (Histoire > Archives). I have the Front des Vosges app they mention and it's quite useful, if a bit clunky.

Gwyn

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