6th (Service) Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers - Tracing Officers

[Guest]

Hello - i am trying to identify the names of the 28 Officers who served with the 6th Royal Munster Fusiliers in August 1915 at Suvla Bay.

I have traced 20 and am trying to identify the names of 8 missing Officers.. The Bn War Diary is particularly thin being only a couple of sheets and only covering the dates 6th Aug to 4th Sep. It records that 25 Officers and 749 ORs landed on 6th/7th Aug at Suvla Bay. and later on 14th Aug 3 Officers and 179 ORs joined as first reinforcements from the men left at Lemnos - 28 officers in total.

The War Diary is extremely difficult to read as the handwriting is minuscule and written in feint pencil. The National Archive scans are slightly out of focus and their labelling rather annoyingly covers part of the image where there is handwriting. The long and the short of it is that there should be 28 Battalion Officers of which 20 are mentioned by name in the War Diary - mostly when they each became a casualty.

There are at least 2 out of 5 Officers who became casualties on 15th August whose names are illegible (Burrowes, Jephson and Rathborne being the ones I can recognise) and one Lt who was wounded on 9th August out of five Officer casualties whose name is also illegible (Livingston, Lee, Bereton and Cunningham being identifiable on the list). I have listed the names identified in the War Diary below followed by the list of other Officers recorded in the Army List of May 1915- the last published before the Bn left for service overseas. The 'missing' men are highly likely to be on this lower list. Additionally there must have been another 5 officers who served with the Bn in August but who survived unscathed between the dates of the War Diary. One is very likely to be the QM and possibly the MO, although I have no document recording the name of the QM at Gallipoli or the MO. Also I don't know which of the Captains was the Adjutant as unusually none is listed in the Army list. Under the Regular 1st and 2nd Bns Worship, Conway and Whatley and Brereton are listed as serving with the 6th Bn i.e. were the Regulars Officers who formed the nucleus of the 6th Bn when it was formed. Given Worship commanded and Conway was a Major, neither were the Adjutant. I suspect Whatley was Company Commander as he was a Regular Captain leaving Brereton as the most likely candidate for Adjutant - he was a Lt from the 2nd Bn - most pre-war regulars being lifted at least one rank when taking appointments in the Kitchener battaliosn.

If anyone has the Battalion history and can fill in the names of the 8 other Officers who served in August I would be extremely grateful.
 

Lt Col WORSHIP DSO..........................WIA 21st Aug 15

Maj J N JEPHSON (retd. Indian Army)....WIA 15th Aug 15.... Jephson's Post is named after him.... CWGC records he died on 29th Aug 15.

Maj M A TYNTE.....................................“Tint’s Corner” named after Maj TYNTE.... died in July 1918

Maj E P CONWAY..................................KIA 9th Aug 15.........CWGC records 10th Aug 15

Capt J B T GRANT.................................MIA 16th Aug 15.......CWGC agrees.

Capt R W OLDNALL...............................WIA 12th Aug 15

Capt H G LIVINGSTON...........................WIA 9th Aug 15

Lt WALLER.............................................Mentioned in War Diary on 12^th Aug 15... although he might be an RE Officer. Not named in the Army List of May 1915.

Lt W M L BRERETON..............................Hospital 9th Aug 15

Lt W E McCLELLAND..............................WIA 16th Aug 15

Lt G W BURROWES................................KIA 15th Aug 15..........CWGC records 16th Aug 15

Lt J L CUNNINGHAM................................Hospital 9th Aug 15.....CWGC has a A C Cunningham KIA on 21st Aug 15

Lt G W N R HAYNES................................WIA 7th Aug 15

2 Lt L A GAFFNEY..................................WIA 12th Aug 15.... CWGC has KIA presumably he DOW

Lt J B LEE................................................KIA 7th Aug 15.......CWGC has 8th Aug 15

Lt A T LEE...............................................WIA 9th Aug 15

2 Lt H M CHAMBERS..............................WIA 15th Aug 15

2 Lt J W L RATHBONE...........................WIA 15th Aug 15

2 Lt WEBB...............................................WIA 23rd Aug 15

2 Lt COMERFORD..................................WIA 16th Aug 15 Not named in the Army List of May 1915.

 

 

Other Officers listed in the Army List May 1915.

 

 

 

Maj Viscount R G ENNISMORE

 

Lt (QM) M SEWELL

Capt S W R WHATELEY

Capt B R FRENCH

Capt C YOUNG BALDWIN

Lt J G BROWNTREE

Lt E A THORNTON

2 Lt A CAIRNDUFF

2 Lt W S KIDD

2 Lt J D BIGGS

2 Lt J L G FASHOM

2 Lt G P COSTELLO

2 Lt D J B MURRAY

2 Lt T E HEARNE

2 Lt C J DODDS

2 Lt A BROCK

2 Lt J E G O'BYRNE

2 Lt A G QUINNELL

2 Lt C M J RYAN

2 Lt C SHEEHAN

2 Lt F E BENNETT

2 Lt R E MARTIN

2 Lt C J MURPHY

 

 

Thanks in advance. Any mistakes are mine. 

 

 

[AndyR]

 

Cooper lists the following casualties to officers (Appendix in Tenth Irish at Gallipoli:

Killed :

Major E. P. Conway.

Lieut. J. B. Lee.

Lieut. G. W. Burrowes.

Died of Wounds :

Major J. N. Jephson.

2nd Lieut. L. A. Gaffney.

Wounded :

Lieut.-Col. V. T. Worship.D.S.O.

Capt. H. G. Oldnall.

Capt. H. G. Livingston.

Capt. C. Y. Baldwin.

Lieut. G. W. N. N. Haynes.

Lieut. A. T. Lee.

Lieut. E. A. Thornton.

2nd Lieut. H. M. Chambers.

2nd Lieut. T. E. Heam.

2nd Lieut. J. I. Comerford.

2nd Lieut. J. W. L. Rathbone.

2nd Lieut. S. C. Webb.

Missing :

Capt. J. B. T. Grant.

Presume 'Heam' is your 'Hearne' and the latter seems more likely

Andy

[AndyR]

Sorry - that was meant to be 'Appendix B' but some strange face appeared instead !

[staunton]

Listed below is my best bet on the 28 Officers who landed at Suvla, based on Medal Rolls and August 1915 Monthly army List

name forename rank regiment medal Star date est date RMF Bn Baldwin C Y Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 15/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Brererton W M L Lt Royal Munster Fusiliers No Star !!! 07/08/1915 6th Burrowes G W Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Chambers H M 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 06/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Conway E P Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 10/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Cunningham J L Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Dodds C J Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 06/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Ennismore Viscount Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Fasham J L G 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th French B R Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 07/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Gaffney L A 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 12/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Grant J B T Capt. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Haynes G W N R Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Hearn T E 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 12/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Jephson J N Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Lee A T Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Lee J B Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Livingston H G Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th McClelland W E Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 08/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th O'Byrne J E G 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 01/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Oldnall R W Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Rathborne J W L 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 13/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Sewell M QM & Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 07/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Thornton E A Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 10/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Tynte M A Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 20/09/1915 07/08/1915 6th Webb S C 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Whateley S W Capt & Adjt Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Worship V T (D.S.O.) Lt Col Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 21/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th

You will note the poor quality of the dates for Officers regarding the 1914/15 Star - it is for more accurate for Other Ranks on average. There are further officers on the MAL for this battalion but their Star dates are credible for subsequent arrival with the battalion at Suvla in September or through the year end in Macedonia. A few others ended up with 8th or 9th Bns in 16th Division.

Lt. Comerford T J was actually 5th R Irish (1914 15 Star) on attachment to 6th Munsters and was WIA per War Diary (subsequently 13 R I Rifles and Indian Army per BW VM)

Rathbone appears as 'Rathborne' in the Medal Rolls

Fasham was said to be the shortest officer in 10th Division

[Guest]

On 10/03/2015 at 21:45, Martin Staunton said:

Listed below is my best bet on the 28 Officers who landed at Suvla, based on Medal Rolls and August 1915 Monthly army List

name forename rank regiment medal Star date est date RMF Bn Baldwin C Y Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 15/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Brererton W M L Lt Royal Munster Fusiliers No Star !!! 07/08/1915 6th Burrowes G W Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Chambers H M 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 06/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Conway E P Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 10/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Cunningham J L Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Dodds C J Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 06/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Ennismore Viscount Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Fasham J L G 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th French B R Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 07/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Gaffney L A 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 12/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Grant J B T Capt. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Haynes G W N R Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Hearn T E 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 12/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Jephson J N Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Lee A T Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Lee J B Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 6th Livingston H G Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th McClelland W E Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 08/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th O'Byrne J E G 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 01/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Oldnall R W Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Rathborne J W L 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 13/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Sewell M QM & Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 07/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Thornton E A Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 10/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th Tynte M A Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 20/09/1915 07/08/1915 6th Webb S C 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Whateley S W Capt & Adjt Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 6th Worship V T (D.S.O.) Lt Col Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 21/08/1915 07/08/1915 6th

You will note the poor quality of the dates for Officers regarding the 1914/15 Star - it is for more accurate for Other Ranks on average. There are further officers on the MAL for this battalion but their Star dates are credible for subsequent arrival with the battalion at Suvla in September or through the year end in Macedonia. A few others ended up with 8th or 9th Bns in 16th Division.

Lt. Comerford T J was actually 5th R Irish (1914 15 Star) on attachment to 6th Munsters and was WIA per War Diary (subsequently 13 R I Rifles and Indian Army per BW VM)

 

Rathbone appears as 'Rathborne' in the Medal Rolls

 

Fasham was said to be the shortest officer in 10th Division

 

 

 

Fantastic. Many thanks for this. Can I ask the source of the Photo, and if the original is any better quality?

Regards 

[staunton]

Photo is from the Irish Life periodical which did the Our Heroes officer supplement, original in Nat Lib Ireland. Have better photo but does the 250 kb limit allow posting here ?

[Guest]

On 11/03/2015 at 07:37, Martin Staunton said:

Photo is from the Irish Life periodical which did the Our Heroes officer supplement, original in Nat Lib Ireland. Have better photo but does the 250 kb limit allow posting here ?

We are limited to 250 KB here.

I have transcribed their Gallipoli diary and would really like to embed the photo with the nominal roll of Officers. When I originally posted the 1914-15 Star medal rolls were not available online. I have done this for a number of battalions and it helps put a human face on some of the key characters. As you point out the rolls are a critical reference.

These men saw some of the bloodiest fighting of the war. Their casualty dates show just how concentrated the attrition was for this battalion. It was very typical in the three New Army Divisions that served in Gallipoli. I recall the Irish Div felt short-changed in the honours due to a spat between the GOC 10th Div and one level further up. There is correspondence with the OH author and surviving 10th Div officers relating to this. I had always intended on researching this aspect to see if there was any truth in the claim.

 

[staunton]

OK, maybe I am getting the hang of this - reduced size quality picture and captions.

[staunton]

Row Labels Count of surname

01/08/1915 1

07/08/1915 13

08/08/1915 2

09/08/1915 23

10/08/1915 2

11/08/1915 6

12/08/1915 7

13/08/1915 9

14/08/1915 3

15/08/1915 40

16/08/1915 15

17/08/1915 5

18/08/1915 2

19/08/1915 1

21/08/1915 11

22/08/1915 1

23/08/1915 1

27/08/1915 2

29/08/1915 3

30/08/1915 2

31/08/1915 3

01/09/1915 2

09/09/1915 1

17/09/1915 1

20/09/1915 1

21/09/1915 1

23/09/1915 1

25/09/1915 1

Edited 12 March , 2015 by Martin Staunton

[staunton]

Daily fatalities for 6RMF re Suvla per WGC - they had nothing remotely like this subsequently, although after its personnel were used to reform 2nd Bn France Summer 1918, they took significant losses in the final months of the war.....

[staunton]

If of interest, I am just finishing the same exercise for 7th Munsters - their WD is much better; oddly they left UK with 29 officers and had 30 at arrival (can only guess - maybe RAMC attached). The WD identifies some officers as present at Suvla where the medal rolls do not so useful...

[staunton]

The original 28 Officers to land with 7th RMF at Suvla:

• name forename RMF serial rank regiment medal Star date est date RMF Bn
• Aplin H Officer Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 19/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Bennett F E Officer 2 Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Berthon A P Officer Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Collins H J Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers BW VM RFC No Star 07/08/1915 7th
• Cooper-Key A L Officer Captain Middx R attd RMF 1914-15 Star. 09/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Cordner H V Officer Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915
• Cullinan R H Officer Capt. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Davis G H Officer Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 19/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Drage G Officer Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 01/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Dunn J V Officer Capt. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Fitz Maurice J G Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915
• Good W H Officer 2 Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Gore H Officer Lt Col Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 19/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Hallinan T D Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers no medals no medals 07/08/1915 7th
• Harper E M Officer Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Hendricks C L Officer Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Henn W F Officer Captain Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 08/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Lawler R E Officer Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 06/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Lindsay C McD Officer QM/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/08/1915 07/08/1915
• Longfield C E Officer Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 09/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Magnier W J Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 09/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Montague H G Officer Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• O'Duffy K E Officer Lieut. Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star. NS 07/08/1915 7th
• Powell F T S Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 19/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Stokes L St. L Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers BW VM only No Star 07/08/1915 7th
• Travers A S Officer 2/Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 01/08/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Travers S R V Officer Lieut Royal Munster Fusiliers 1914-15 Star 00/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th
• Wace M Officer Captain & Adj IA attd RMF BW VM only 17/07/1915 07/08/1915 7th

Edited 15 March , 2015 by Martin Staunton

[Guest]

Martin... many thanks for sharing this info. A really nice photo too.

 

[staunton]

welcome, the original is with a descendant of the two Lee brothers in the 6th RMF, one of whom (J B ) was KIA. a 3rd brother (R E) who saw action in France with RAMC, died in the RMS Leinster sinking of October 1918.

Edited 19 March , 2015 by Martin Staunton

[staunton]

This page contains a group photo of many (22) officers of 7th Bn

 

[axial1680]

On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2015 at 19:20, staunton said:

OK, maybe I am getting the hang of this - reduced size quality picture and captions.

 

 

 

 

Strange seeing a photo of Lieut - Colonel Worship after reading his name on Grandfathers conduct sheet! Have seen photos of Major Jephson before.

[axial1680]

Out of interest after reading the 6th Battalion war diaries for Salonika yesterday, these names rang a bell with me. It states on 3rd October 1916, moved to attack Jenikoj, Fire fight with rifle fire. Captain G Brownlee severely injured, succeeded by Leut S.C Webb who was killed immediately. Lt Col Worship was in and out of hospital a couple of times with malaria while there too.