Captured Fokker EIII 210/16

[Regulus 1]

Hi

This Fokker fell in British hands, due to the unexperienced pilot who landed at the wrong airfield.

It seems that the Gefreiter's name was Johann or Hans Hvüres.

There was an article about this in Cross and Cockade should have it. Vol. 12 No. 1 1981.

The reference is that this should be a Fokker from FFA 5, but it would be more logical if it came from FFA 5b, with the Kampfeinsitzer Kommando KEK 3.

Has anyone run into more information of this plane, that is where it landed, what it's unit was and who was the pilot ?

Thanks !

Johan

[centurion]

Did you mean to attach a photo?

[Regulus 1]

Gladly :-)

Give me a sec please !

[Regulus 1]

[Regulus 1]

Captured Fokker E.III 210/16 being flown at Upavon, Wiltshire in 1916

[Regulus 1]

This probably happened on 8 April 1916 near Reneseure, which is close to Saint-Omer. Some source say it was shot down. This seems not to have been the case.

[mickdavis]

Not related to its capture, but subsequent RFC use. NA AIR1 16/3/44 contains a note that Fokker 'HD' 509, 100hp Gnome, was was allotted from the CFS to 39 HD Sqn on 5 July 1916

[Regulus 1]

But a most interesting add to the story about this plane ! Thanks !

[David Filsell]

This is from an unpublished article which I have "in stock" about the death of Immelmann. After the pre-amble about the Eindecker's flight charachteristics, Could it be this be the captured aircraft?:

There seems little doubt that the Eindecker’s flying characteristics were testing and the aircraft fragile. Writing in 1973, historic aircraft expert Frank Tallman, who logged some 14,000 flying hours on over 500 different aircraft - ranging from a 1910 Curtis pusher to supersonic jets - recorded his opinions of a skilfully created Eindecker replica powered by an 80-hp Gnome rotary engine. Not least of the aircraft’s antique features he wrote was that, despite a fully flying tail and elevators, it employed the outdated wing warping mechanism, which used wires to flex the aircraft’s wing tips to achieve lateral control, rather than ailerons. In consequence, having noted the aircraft’s rudimentary instrumentation, Tallman stated, “It makes good sense to be careful in checking the flying and warping attaching fittings”.

In flight, he recorded that his first reaction to the Eindecker was,, “How in Hades did an inexperienced pilot ever fly this bucking bronco”.

“... the warp is extremely stiff on the wings, but slight pressure and almost no apparent effort of the stick is enough to drop a wing in a normal turn.The tendency, as you level out, is to want to get both hands on the stick for, as you pick up speed, it gets very sensitive fore and aft, and you have some difficulty in not porpoising”.

Aware of the aircraft’s tendency to for structural failures when it first appeared at the front in 1915 Tallman did not attempt aerobatics.

“Perhaps because of the lack of aerodynamic knowledge in the early days, the elevator and rudder are perpetually hunting and feeding the attendant change back through the control system to the pilot. Perhaps the major flight characteristic is the feeling that if you took your hands off the stick or your feet off the rudders, the Eindecker would turn itself inside out or literally swap ends”.

Tallman recorded that the aircraft undertook steep turns at altitude, climbs, glides, shallow dives, chandelles and lazy 8’s nicely: “... except for the uncomfortable control feedback...”. On landing he less seriously he added, “... I have a sudden urge to click my heels and stiffly salute, not the Fokker Eindecker, but the men who had to fly it in combat”.

Certainly the Eindecker actually flew little better than any aircraft of its period, and worse than some. The new young RFC pilot Cecil Lewis wrote that, to great excitement, in early 1916 an intact Eindecker was captured by the British. (Until that time the British were uncertain as to whether the aircraft was powered by a rotary or stationary engine.)Lewis considered the aircraft “evil-looking” and noted that such was the fear of the aircraft that:

“Rumour credited it with the most fantastic performance! It could outclimb, outpace, outmanoeuvre anything in the RFC. You were as good as dead if you so much as so one ... and soon”.

In witnessing the captured Eindecker’s test against a Morane, Lewis was about to be surprised. The French built aircraft he reported actually:

“.. climbed quicker, it was faster on the level, and when the the two machines began a mock fight, the Morane had everything its own way. A cheer went up from the ground. The bogey was laid”.

In further tests against a Morane Biplane, the Parasol, the Nieuport Scout and the (BE) 2c, only the 2c, flown by the self admittedly “inexperienced” Lewis apparently failed to give a good account of itself against the Fokker. Lewis recorded:

“A description of the of the machine, its size, power, capabilities, was circulated at once to everyone in the (Royal Flying) Corps. It did a great deal to raise morale and prepare the way for the Allied air supremacy later that year”

[Regulus 1]

David,

It most certainly does look so ! One fell into British hands, and 3 of them were captured by the French (most of the Fokkerstaffels and KEK's were active in the Verdun area as you probably know).

Thank you very much ! Bit by bit the mysteries around this plane are solved.

I was just writing about the Immelmann victories the last days, and about his discussed death for my upcoming book on the Fokkerstaffels and KEK's at Fonthill Media.

Johan

[David Filsell]

Regulus or may I call you Reg/

I've recently found some new stuff about his death - ald newspaper and newer British research from German army infantry accounts. Contact me if you are insterested.

David

[Regulus 1]

Please do call me Reg ! :-)

You have a PM !

Johan

[David Filsell]

Reg,

Excuse ignorance but what is PM?

You can mail me through the forum.

David

[Regulus 1]

Oops, private message that is ! My e-mail is regulusone@gmail.com

Johan