Pte leigh 28th bn AIF - death query

[andrew.gillsfc]

Hi

Pte C T Leigh 3174 (28th bn AIF) was kia on 10/5/16 and is buried north of fromelles. Does anyone know what occurred in this locality that date as i thought the AIF didnt battle on the western front until july 1916.

Thanks

Andrew

[gilly100]

Hi Andrew

Perhaps Neville Browning's unit history of the 28th Bn AIF will shed some light. Called - The Blue and White Diamond. Privately published and if you do a bookfinder.com search you should be able to find a copy floating around somewhere, especially in Australia. Also try Regimental Books in Australia. The war diary is also downloadable via National Archives Australia and the Australian War Memorial. Under AWM4 series.

Cheers

Ian Gill

[David B]

Whilst there may have been no actions until July 1916 AIF troops were in the line a couple of months prior to that. My step father (Pte James Bernard Williams 3363, 12th Bn) was wounded in the

Armentieres area on 21 May. The wound was severe enough for him never to return to active service. He said it was just one of the shells that were sent over from time to time to remind our

forces that there was an enemy a few hundred yards away. I am wondering whether the same occurred to your man with fatal results.

There is no mention of this incident in the 12th Bn's war diary, so I guess it wasn't regarded as important enough to warrant a word or two. Cheers

[gilly100]

Andrew

For the 28th Bn War Diary, which is in PDF format and downloadable from

www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm4

Once on the main records page, find INFANTRY, click on and then all the units will come up

28 Bn is AWM4/23/45

Neville's book is still available as he has had some more recently reprinted. If you want his email address you can PM me or look him up via google.

Cheers

Ian

[andrew.gillsfc]

Thanks.

Ian if you can send me his email to andrew.gillsfc@gmail.com that would be appreciated.

Rgartillery - do you think one of our shells fell on our trenches then? Also if not in action, why were our forces in the trenches?

Thanks again

[David B]

Andrew,

As far as i can remember the original sector the AIF was in was supposed to be a quiet sector in order to familiarize them with Western Front conditions. This is not to say that nothing

was going on. There certainly was shelling, but probably not at the intensity of an all out attack. From this distance in time it is not possible to say that one of our shells fell in our trenches,

but I would suspect not. Trenches were manned at all times, otherwise the other side could just walk through.

[widavies]

Hi Andrew,

Unless you can find direct reference to your mans actual demise then it could have been due to a number of factors that accounted for such attritional deaths in the trenches during so called quiet periods. He could have succumbed to shelling, snipers, general accidents or while actively patrolling between the lines as the AIF were very pro-active in this form of warfare during the April June window in 1916 as the Official history of AIF 1914-1918-Vol 3 indicates as follows:-

On April 9th a party of the 7th Brigade, working on the wire in front of its trenches, was caught by such a searchlight; its beam found one flank of the party, travelled along the line of men to the other flank, and back again, after which a machine-gun opened upon them. Whether there were casualties on that occasion is not recorded. When a machine-gun opened, the only course possible for the men of such a party was to throw themselves flat at the first shot, and lie prone until fire ceased. Sometimes an Australian patrol, when venturing near the German wire, could guess by the tinkle of a hand-bell or by a low whistle that it had been seen by a German listening post, whose occupants were giving this warning to their friends. Occasionally, however, the first sign was a salvo of bursting stick- bomb. While the Australians were still comparatively new to the work, a small patrol of the 21^st Battalion was ambushed by an enemy patrol, which killed one of its members and wounded the two others. The Germans ran back as soon as they had fired, and a heavy fusillade was presently opened from their line. But the wounded Australians and their dead comrade had by then been brought back into the trenches by men of the 21st who went out to help them.

Within a few weeks of the corps entering the line numerous Australian patrols, including many others besides the scouts, were reconnoitiring boldly up to the enemy’s wire. Lieutenant Gill of the 28th, penetrating into the enemy’s wire south-east of Armentires, found a particularly vulnerable point in it ; and Captain Foss , crawling out past the old British rifle-pits in the same region, discovered a track by which this spot was “ safely accessible-two discoveries which were subsequently of value. In May, when it was desired to capture a German in order to identify the enemy troops holding this sector, as many as100 men of the 6^th Battalion lay out nightly in No-Man’s Land.

The Armenties sector continued, until the beginning of June, to be very quiet, probably the least disturbed on the British front. The casualties of the I Anzac Corps were at this time much lower than those of any corps in the Second Army. In the last week of April, for example, I Anzac had 118 killed and wounded, as against some 500 for the II Corps, which was next in the line, while the figures for the other corps were somewhat higher. During the next two weeks the Anzac losses were 231 and 97 respectively. These tranquil months fortunately gave the commander and staff of theA.I.F.time not only for some training of the troops, but also for the very important task of establishing the system of organisation and control which was to endure until the force eventually returned to Australia, and upon which its efficiency both directly and indirectly depended

Regards

Will

[frev]

Hi Andrew

Just in case you don't end up obtaining a copy of Neville's book - I can let you know that Cyril Leigh's death is mentioned in it.

He was on duty in a listening post in No Man's Land, when unfortunately he was accidentally shot in the back from his own trenches.

Cheers, Frev

[andrew.gillsfc]

Thanks Frev

Any idea whereabouts this happened? Also could the page this is mentioned on be scanned to me please?

Andrew

andrew.gillsfc@gmail.com

[Andrew P]

Andrew, you may already have this info, but just in case

Cyril Thomas Leigh was born in Sutton, Surrey, England to Thomas and Elizabeth Leigh. On his arrival in Western Australia he seems to have lived in both Fremantle and Perth and worked as a sleeper hewer. He enlisted in September 1915 and was assigned to the 7th Reinforcements to the 28th Battalion and embarked with this group from Fremantle aboard the HMAT Medic on the 18th January 1916. The ship arrived at Alexandria on the 18th February 1916 though Cyril was not taken on strength of the 28th Battalion until the 15th March 1916. Six days later he embarked for Marseilles with his unit. In early May 1916 including the date he was killed, the 28th Battalion were in the Rue Marle trenches in the Bois Greiner sector. I have it also recorded that the 28th's war diary stated that 150 shells fell on the battalion trenches that day.

Cyril was buried in Ration Farm Military Cemetery and his epitaph on the grave states that; "In Loving Memory of one who died for his country"

Regards

Andrew

[andrew.gillsfc]

Thanks andrew. Any idea where in fremantle and perth he resided please?

Andrew

[Andrew P]

Checked my notes and actually found three places. The first was High Street Fremantle. There was no number for the street but a lot of new arrivals stayed in the hotels in freo's West End such as Cleopatra's, P&O and the Fremantle Hotel.

The 2nd address was simply GPO Perth which may relate to the fact the third address was Balingup. He was most likely working in the South west as a sleeper hewer but still had his mail c/o GPO Perth.

Cheers

[frev]

Also could the page this is mentioned on be scanned to me please?

Andrew - scanned page has been sent.

Cheers, Frev