fletcherl Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 I am researching my Great Uncle C/858 Rfm Robert Fletcher (see attached photo) who was KIA on 4 April 1916, aged 19, in the trenches at Cuinchy. According to the Battalion War Diary the trenches were shelled by the enemy between 11:00am & noon and were also subject to intermittent small minnies and rifle grenades throughout the day. The names of the 4 men killed and 3 wounded as a result of the bombardment appear in the margin of the diary. Those killed were CSM Laurence, Rfm Fletcher, Rfm Larke & Rfm Howell(?). Robert was in 'B' Company and came from Bolton. Robert has no known grave and is commemorated on the Loos Memorial. CSM Laurence was buried in the Cambrin Churchyard Extension Cemetery. I understand that 16 (Service) Battalion of the KRRC was primarily made up of Church Lad Brigade members and it is this aspect that I am particularly interested in. I cannot find reference to Roberts service records but assume he enlisted fairly early (Sept 1914?) and was a member of the CLB. There was an active CLB based at St Paul's Chuch, Astley Bridge, Bolton and which was fairly close to Roberts family home in Chalfont Street. If any of the CLB/KRRC experts on the site can point me in the right direction to further my research or provide any information they have concerning Robert I would be extremely grateful to hear from them. Regards, Banbury X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 SDGW shows : Name: Edgar William HorwillBirth Place: Stoke Damerel, Devon Death Date: 4 Apr 1916 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Plymouth Rank: Rifleman Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps Battalion: 16th Battalion Number: C/1382 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Commemorated on the Loos Memorial and killed on the 4th of April 1916 are 9 members of The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment), 2 King's Royal Rifle Corps, 1 Royal Munster Fusiliers and 1 Royal Sussex Regiment 3 other men of the KRRC died on that date, 2 are buried in Cambrin Churchyard (16th Btn) and 1 in Bethune Town Cemetery (2nd Btn) LOOS MEMORIAL - Robert Fletcher & Charles Henry Larke. CAMBRIN CHURCHYARD - Edgar William Horwill & Carelton Eric Laurence. BETHUNE TOWN - W.A.Payne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Don't know if this is helpful... Rifleman C/251 Charles Henry Larke, an Engineer from Norwich, enlisted in Dereham, Norfolk on 22 Sept'14 and joined the regiment in London. He was 18 and single. He first went to France on 16 Nov'15. He went down with Influenza on 26 Feb'16 and returned to duty on 8 Mar'16. His service record is on Ancestry. I can't find this chap on Ancestry... LAURENCE, CARLETON ERIC Rank: Company Serjeant Major Service No: C/1218 Date of Death: 04/04/1916 Age: 21 Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps 16th Bn Grave Reference E. 48. Cemetery CAMBRIN CHURCHYARD EXTENSION Son of the Hon. Dr. Stephen Moister Laurence and Eliza W. Laurence, of Port of Spain, Trinidad, British West Indies. Enlisted Sept. 1914. Law Student at Middle Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Service papers survive for C/857 Peter Yates. His address was 24 Astley Street, Bolton He enlisted at Bolton 2nd October 1914, presumably the same day as your relative. Probably they knew each other? He then joined at Denham the following day. Yates was also 16th Bn and also went to France on 16th November 1915. He was killed in action 20th May 1917. You will be interested that his Attestation form has "CLB KRR Corps" under corps, and "CLB Bn" next to his joining date. His statement of family members was signed by William Popplewell, vicar of All Souls, Bolton in case that's a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Here's a bit of social history from a local lad the same age; Int.: Did you belong to any of these? FB: No. I used to want to join the Church Lads' Brigade but my mother used to think they were rather rough for me - the rougher end of the parish used to get in the Church Lads' Brigade. Out time then did. She didn't forbid it entirely but she used to discourage the idea. These lads came from the 'slummier' end of the parish, they were all very good lads most of 'em were killed in the 14-18 war, bless 'em but I wasn't encouraged to join. Int.: What denomination was the Church? FB: Church of England. All Souls http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=uk In the event that All Souls is the correct church, there is a memorial in it which I would expect to have his name on it; http://www.visitchur...ton-Lancashire/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 If you haven't already seen this web page about CSM Laurence, there is excellent detail of the movements of the 16th KRRC and the war diary page; http://www.kevinlaur...17&view=preview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 3 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Very many thanks to all for the responses to my post and I am grateful for the information provided. From looking at family history records there is a connection with All Souls Church so I guess that would be a starting point but I understand the Church is now closed. Off to the Library in Bolton tomorrow to see if they have any further info on this CLB unit and the Rev Popplewell. Robert & his family were employed in the Cotton Spinning trade which at the time would have been the predominant source of employment for a large proportion of the population in Bolton. Sandie: I came across a web site with info for Carleton Eric Laurence at www.kevinlaurence.net which gave quite a lot of info on this soldier if you are interested in him. Odd that two of those killed were buried in Cambrin Churchyard but no graves for Robert and CH Larke? Thanks once again & kind regards to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 3 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2012 IPT beat me by one minute!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 A minute is a long time with IPT! I found the family history site for Carelton. He looks like a boy in his photograph, as does Robert Fletcher. I wonder why Carelton joined KRRC and not the West Indies or British West Indies Regiments. I expect it was very unusual to have a black soldier in the regiment. I cannot find a medal index card for him and I'm puzzled why not. Sandie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Banbury To help cement a date of enlistment C/859 enlisted on 1 October 1914.(source SWB Lists, series M, Winchester) Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 3 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Hello again Sotonmate. Hope you are well and thanks for the info on the enlistment date. Never ceased to be amazed by the wealth of knowledge on this site and the fact that keen researchers are always ready to help out novices like myself. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 3 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Here's a bit of social history from a local lad the same age; Int.: Did you belong to any of these? FB: No. I used to want to join the Church Lads' Brigade but my mother used to think they were rather rough for me - the rougher end of the parish used to get in the Church Lads' Brigade. Out time then did. She didn't forbid it entirely but she used to discourage the idea. These lads came from the 'slummier' end of the parish, they were all very good lads most of 'em were killed in the 14-18 war, bless 'em but I wasn't encouraged to join. Int.: What denomination was the Church? FB: Church of England. All Souls http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=uk In the event that All Souls is the correct church, there is a memorial in it which I would expect to have his name on it; http://www.visitchur...ton-Lancashire/ IPT - the link to the Church had not appeared when I first read your post. I see from the site that I can make an appintment to visit so will do this with a view to establishing if Roberts name is on the memorial and whether they have any info on the CLB connection. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Sandie, MIC is mispelled as Lawrence; http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A000934-01494&fn=Carleton+E&ln=Lawrence&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1342571 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 3 October , 2012 Share Posted 3 October , 2012 Thank you, kind sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 13 October , 2012 Share Posted 13 October , 2012 Can tell you that the Bolton CLB Battalion provided the largest number of recruits to the 16th KRRC. I think Rochdale was next with over 100 enlistments. You will find information about the Bolton CLB men elsewhere on this site - I made posts some time ago. I am posting a picture of Rfn Larke. There are pictures of Fletcher and Lawrence in 'The Brigade' magazine but they are the ones already posted. Lawrence was originally posted to the 12th KRRC and was later posted to the 16th KRRC - he was deeply religious. Cannot find anything on Howell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 13 October , 2012 Share Posted 13 October , 2012 Just found a picture for Horwill. His name was misspelled as Harwill in 'The Brigade'. He is numbered C/1382 which indicates that he was one of the early reserves to join the battalion. There were approximately 1100 men went out to France with another 500 or so training as reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 15 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2012 Conijoni, Many thanks for the additional information and the photo's of Rfm Larke & Horwill. Is it possible to obtain a copy of 'The Brigade' magazine featuring Robert and, if so,where do I apply? I'll certainly look up your previous posts on the Bolton CLB. Regards, BanburyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 15 October , 2012 Share Posted 15 October , 2012 Conijoni, <snip> Is it possible to obtain a copy of 'The Brigade' magazine featuring Robert and, if so,where do I apply? You could consider joining the CLB Historical Group - details here: http://www.clcgb.org.uk/historical-group.html Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 15 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2012 Mark, Thank you for posting the link. I may be being a bit thick but cannot see an application form or details of how to join the Historical Group. Do I just email the secretary. Sorry for being a pain!!!! Regards, BanburyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 15 October , 2012 Share Posted 15 October , 2012 Mark, Thank you for posting the link. I may be being a bit thick but cannot see an application form or details of how to join the Historical Group. Do I just email the secretary. Sorry for being a pain!!!! Regards, BanburyX No worries. At the foot of that page is says: "For further information, please contact Nev Gray, the Historical Group Secretary" and then gives Neville's email address (not reproduced here as probably against Forum best practice. The archive certainly has bound copies of The Brigade, but I suspect you would have to visit in person to inspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 16 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2012 Cheers Mark, see it now. I'm overdue an eye test obviously!!!!!! Regards BanburyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conijoni Posted 18 October , 2012 Share Posted 18 October , 2012 Other than the photograph, there is nothing else in the Brigade magazine about Robert Fletcher. There is a full set of bound volumes of The Brigade at CLCGB HQ. Occasionally they come up for sale on ebay. The magazines are mostly about the CLB companies and the formations they belong to. During the war years there is a 16th KRRC diary each month, written by the Chaplain, giving details of football matches, concert parties, bravery awards, etc. Prominent members of the battalion might get a few sentences but the ordinary rifleman rarely gets a look in. The magazines carry supplements and these contain photos of the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherl Posted 18 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 October , 2012 Conijoni, Thanks for the update - much appreciated. Regards BanburyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon6640 Posted 20 October , 2012 Share Posted 20 October , 2012 Interesting entry re cause of death for Laurence here: http://kingscollections.org/warmemorials/kings-college/memorials/laurence-carleton-eric Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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