Thomas Guillaume St Barbe Baker M.C

[corisande]

Thomas Guillaume St Barbe Baker M.C - my notes on him click

Baker joined the RFA, was 2nd Lt in 1915, gazetted MC (I cannot get an actual citation) in 1917, moved to RAF and was a Capt on demobilisation.

He joined the Auxiliaries in Ireland.

He went on to be a well known fascist between the wars and was interned in the Isle of Man from 1940 till 1945 - unusual as even Mosley was released in 1943

It is difficult to get real information on him. The Wikipedia entry is somewhat "coloured". I cannot find an obit or death notice in the Times.

I have got his RAF record but cannot find anything on his RFA career. He appears to have been wounded at least twice.

Can anyone help with more information on hiim?

[rflory]

BAKER, 2/Lt Thomas Guillaume St.Barbe RGA (SR), LG 18 Oct 1917; citation LG 7 Mar 1918

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When the entrance to the signallers' dug-out was hit and the staircase destroyed, one of the occupants being severely wounded and the remainder rendered insensible from fumes, he descended with a party by a second entrance and got all the men away, though twice rendered unconscious by the shell fumes.

[corisande]

Thanks very much for the citation, I have added that now

[toofatfortakeoff]

I have read a long time since his 18b record. Died Brighton or Hove 1966.

at a number of addresses in Elgin Avenue, Ladbroke Grove, Earls Court. He was on the run for a while to evade internment and shaved off ''his distinctive walrus moustache''.

He stated in his 18b review that he had been buried alive twice in the trenches and did not like it one little bit.

He was seen as a bad influence on other detainees.

I cant click on to your link. Would like to see more on him.

[toofatfortakeoff]

Also more info. He founded, just after release (inaug.Peveril Camp) the League of Christian Refomrers a quasi/nazi movement in Petworth near River Hampshire. The overlord was Captain Robert Gordon Canning MC (Mosley Lieutenant) who bought the bust of Hitler from the sale of German embassy goods at auction in 45 as a centrepiece. 

The aim was to equate Hitler with God-a cult. He attracted one family the German descent Schneiders who took a beating on his behalf, by a group of Canadian soldiers who took exception after a local school took a hit in 45. The group ended. Many Mi5 for example said Baker was a fraud or an idiot. Bakers wife went off to S.Africa to grow oranges and the rest followed. Baker regarded his baby son as the “God child”. It would seem the exertin of WW1 had a bad effect on him . He had been buried alive and did not “like the war, not one little bit”. He joined the auxiliaries in Ireland. www.theauxiliaries.com The sale of the bust is on YouTube. 

[corisande]

Just revisiting his records at the moment

Oddly I cannot find a photo of him.

Given his high profile, it is odd that there is no photo

Can anyone help, please?

[Ivor Anderson]

On 30/09/2012 at 18:18, rflory said:

BAKER, 2/Lt Thomas Guillaume St.Barbe RGA (SR), LG 18 Oct 1917; citation LG 7 Mar 1918

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When the entrance to the signallers' dug-out was hit and the staircase destroyed, one of the occupants being severely wounded and the remainder rendered insensible from fumes, he descended with a party by a second entrance and got all the men away, though twice rendered unconscious by the shell fumes.

Initial listing: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30340/supplement/10711

LG citation page: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30561/supplement/2932

[corisande]

Thanks Ivor, but it is only the photo that (I think) I am missing

My OP has a link to what I have on him

Thomas Guillaume St Barbe Baker M.C - my notes on him click

I am trying to put together the photos of as many of the ADRIC men that I can. And this man was one that you would think that there would be lots of photos , but I cannot get any

[Ivor Anderson]

His brother Richard followed a very different path? Must have looked similar? https://bahaichronicles.org/richard-edward-st-barbe-baker/

Edited 17 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson

[corisande]

8 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Must have looked similar?

 

Interesting thought

One wonders how the brother had so many photos, but this chap, in spite of his dubious record appears to have avoided the camera

[Ivor Anderson]

He may show up in photos with Oswald Mosley. e.g.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/resizer/xbyzOBu7Dp4nV-Z9ybhkFWpRSzI=/1200x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mna/M24FEN5CFVDFPJZGMSGLMTFD3A.jpg

[corisande]

That's a great idea. I will see how I get on with that.

[corisande]

Having spent the morning looking at British fascism in the 1930s an 1940s, I have become an expert on the movement in Britain, but failed to find a photo including Barbe Baker. Interestingly a number do cite my work on him!

Experience in the past has taught me that it was usually British Intelligence that kept men out of the public light, if so why Barbe Baker?

If nothing else , anyone in the said Intelligence checking on my web history might wonder why I spent hours researching British Nazis

[Ivor Anderson]

3 hours ago, corisande said:

Experience in the past has taught me that it was usually British Intelligence that kept men out of the public light, if so why Barbe Baker?

Could he have been an undercover intelligence plant?  Interesting comment: "An officer at the Peveril internment Camp (Peel), noted that Baker did not have the light of nazi ideology burning in his eyes and that everything he did was calculated."   Mosley was ex RFC (1915), Baker was RAF. Both close in age too.

Edited 18 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson

[corisande]

1 hour ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Could he have been an undercover intelligence plant? 

My conclusion is that is the most likely scenario

• He was very high profile bur not photos
•  We can get hundreds of photos of his brother
• Another example is Major  Carew , who I have yet to track to a decent photo, and who was high profile and Intelligence
• Or Major Regnart , big in early MI6 and committed suicide in Ireland when in ADRIC
• I would accept that lack of photo does not mean a man was working in Intelligence, but with a high profile chap yes, I am suspicious
• It is far enough in the past for me not to be concerned about a visit from MI6 myself
• One day someone will do a biography of Barber

[toofatfortakeoff]

Some details I gleaned from his incarceration papers. I supplied most of his wiki page, many years ago. 

'distinctive walrus moustache'. 

Served in R company ADRIC in Ireland before he was sent to depot l, nothing distinguishing.. Brin sent to depot may indicate health (hospitalised) and as he said at his interrogation, he had been buried alive twice? and did not like the war 'one little bit. 

Marriages Marta sep. And died 1953.

One child Richard John whom TG claimed was a God Child of Hitler. She had enough of him by 1940, and took Godchild with her. 

Secondly married Olive Skinner,also  an 18B internee. TGSBB was kept longer than any other male prisoner. 

She had a son David St. Barbe Skinner. 

A German psychologist internees said he Baker, he was without wit or idea. He woudk bring me my breakfast every morning for a time, saying 'Good news! Doodle bugs over London!' He was kept from other prisoners because he was a bad influence on them. 

There is a video of.the sale of Nazi Embassy items post war on Youtube (Pathe) . There is a man in the shadows.. Captain R C Gordon Canning, bidding and winning was a member of the cult (also 18B int) .. Near the back left sits a man who has a heavy moustache. TGSB Baker? 

I'm sure the only people who will have photos now are family.

No prominent nazis had their photos in MI5 files as I saw at Kew. 

Here for the auction 

https://youtu.be/vHQP6hXDePY?si=jPZ8Q151WEpC2fcF

Post war, TG  set up at Petworth a short lived  Christian Nazi cult, the Christian Reform League which promoted Hitler as Christ, produced lunatic books and  swallowed the finances of a fellow  internee.. Hattery heir James Larratt Battersby, who jumped into the wheels of a paddle steamer in 1951. Rumours persist that Canning had the Hitler bust buried around there. 

Th leagues HQ was smashed up by a group of angry servicemen, and they all drifted away. 

Baker had some contact with Mosley in the 50s, while he lived in Jersey but  nothing substantial. Records on his movements are jeld by the Board of Jewish Deputies. 

He passed away n Brighton. I woudk have thought a police wanted poster woudk be around from his time on the run as a nazi fugitive in 1940-the tache went during this period