1 Btn, Wiltshire Regiment on 5th June 1917 - Corporal Henry Davis

[tiswot]

I would love to find the service record of this man, but I think it was one destroyed in WW2. This is the information I've found so far,

Name: Herbert Henry Davis, Birth Place: Swanage, Dorset, Residence: Swanage, Dorset Death Date: 5 Jun 1917, Death Location: France & Flanders, Enlistment: Dorchester, Rank: Corporal, Regiment: Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) Battalion: 1st Battalion Number: 32514 Type of Casualty: Killed in action, Theatre of War: Western European Theatre, Comments:

Formerly 17140, Dorsetshire Regiment.

This is from the 'UK, soldiers who died in the Great War' listing. I know he's one of the names on the Menin Gate.

Primarily I want to find out where he died - was he part of the Messines Ridge operation? Or did he die too soon? I'd also like to know what periods of leave he had, also when he left for France.

Can any history detectives out there help me?

Liz

[KevinBattle]

Hi, Liz, looks as if you are right that it's a bit early for Messines which seems to have started on 7th and there were just 3 men in the Battalion killed on 5th.

In addition to "your" Herbert, there were L/Cpl Frank Austin and this chap, who unlike the other two, DOES have a known grave, albeit probably a Dressing Station casualty, but likely to be the nearest to where he was hit.....

Name: CONDUIT, A. Rank: Private

Service No: 3/8277. Date of Death: 05/06/1917

Regiment/Service: Wiltshire Regiment. 1st Bn

Grave Reference: I. C. 5. Cemetery: WULVERGHEM-LINDENHOEK ROAD MILITARY CEMETERY

The cemetery was begun in December 1914 by four battalions of the 5th Division and was called at first Wulverghem Dressing Station Cemetery. It was used until June 1917, and again in September and October 1918, and at the Armistice it contained 162 graves, the present Plot I.

It would seem unusual for a Corporal, L/Cpl and a private to be the only casualties, usually the ratio of OR's to NCO's was a lot lower!

There may therefore be some more specific information in the Battalion War Diary, which may be available amongst those already on the GWF.

[Sandie Hayes]

He is recorded as Herbert H Davis.

He was not entitled to the 1914/15 Star so did not go overseas until January 1916 at the earliest.

Heavy preliminary artillery bombardment of the German lines was begun on 21 May, involving 2,300 guns and 300 heavy mortars, ceasing at 02:50 on the morning of 7 June.

The Battle of Messines Ridge being 7 - 14 June. The 1st Wiltshires were part of 25th Division at that time, so definitely part of the battle.

Read this: http://www.1914-1918.net/25div.htm

[Sandie Hayes]

There are 27 soldiers commemorated on the Menin Gate, all of whom died on 5th June 1917.

I can find 4 men on the memorial from the Wiltshire Regiment, including Herbert Davis, plus 2 men with CWGC burials.

The 2 men not mentioned by Kevin were both 6th Battalion, 19th (Western Division) also present at Messines.

[edwin astill]

Monday 4th June 1917 France, Ravelsberg Hill

(4th - 6th) During this period the Battn remained at RAVELSBERG CAMP and except for being called upon to supply two small working parties the men were able to rest. On the 4th reinforcements to other ranks joined the Battn. In the afternoon of the 5th a party of 50 other ranks from C & D Coy under 2nd Lieuts Brown, D F and Ludford, W E carried out a raid upon the enemy's defences opposite the WULVERGHEM Sector and penetrated to his reserve line in his front system of trenches. Unfortunately, none of the enemy were encountered and the trenches were found to be quite unoccupied.

Casualties were caused by sniping fire from the flanks and by one or two of our own shells falling short : the numbers were : Killed, 1 other rank, wounded, 8 other ranks, wounded still at duty, 3, and missing, 2 other ranks.

From the 1st Wiltshire Regt War Diary

Edwin

[grantowi]

He was awarded the BWM + VM

He was part of the group that embarked from the UK on 25/11/16

Then joined 3 IBD for a month on 26/11/16

Finally joining the 1st Wilts on 25/12/16

Grant

[KevinBattle]

Great stuff, Edwin, looks as if he was one of the 2 men missing after the artillery shortfalls, and not recovered.

Conduit could have been the sniper victim, taken back to the Dressing Station.

That would explain why 2 are commemorated on the Menin Gate and one has a known burial.

[tiswot]

Thank you very much everyone, this gives me a full picture of his service. If he was one of the 'missing' as caused by the artillery short fall would his death be recorded as the 5th June 1917? Is it a case of they knew he had to be one of the people hit by artillery shortfall - but there wasn't enough to bury?

Liz

[KevinBattle]

I don't think his Battalion would leave him unburied, but more likely is that the two shelling casualties were buried close to where they were killed and then the grave marker(s) lost during later fighting. Damage to their trench would have to be repaired, so he would have been recovered and buried, but maybe unable to tell which was who...

[Sandie Hayes]

I agree with Kevin.

You have the comfort of knowing he does have a grave but that it's probably marked with a headstone 'A Soldier of The Great War' 'Known Unto God'.

Sandie

[tiswot]

Thank you everyone, I now have a full picture of what happened to Bert.

[Jeb01]

Appreciate that the opening post was a good while ago, but I went for a walk a few days ago in the Purbeck Hills, Dorset, and ended up in the picturesque village of Studland, about 5 miles from Swanage.

Wandered around the churchyard of the Norman church (St Nicholas), and on my way out noticed a gravestone (not a CWGC one) that mentioned this soldier, and recorded, accurately it would seem, that he died on 5/6/17 at Messines, serving with the Wiltshire Regt.

I checked the name on WIKI later and was directed to this posting.

The gravestone has three inscriptions, being firstly this soldiers brother who died in 1904 aged 15 years, then Corp. Davis, and finally their father, who died at the age of 70 years.

No doubt the father wanted to have a memorial to both sons in the local churchyard.

The opening post says Corp. Davis was born and resided in Swanage, but the gravestone suggests this was a family who lived in Studland, which even today has a population of less than 500, and stands in some beautiful Dorset countryside.

I wonder why he ended up with the Wiltshires, rather than the Dorsets - but maybe you took what you were given

[Guest Sonya Cooper]

I was so pleased to see these posts , Herbert Henry Davis was my great Uncle , He had five sisters and his younger brother died aged 15 my Aunts Amy and Mabel (the only two I knew) used to say he died of "drinking diabetes". My great grandparents Charlotte and William moved into steps pond cottage in Studland, Dorset after they married, Amy and Mabel lived there until the 80s.

 Herbert was talked about with great affection by his sisters. who called him Herb, apparently he was a really jolly chap who was a clever mimic, I have some of the letters he sent from the front where he talks about the fleas rats and mud, he also talks about meeting with other Dorset men and receiving a parcel of a cake! The letter (sadly missing) sent from the second Lt when he was killed said that " a large shell burst near him and he was killed instantly, so this is probably why he has no known grave. The entry in my grandmothers diary just reads "today my dear boy was killed" 

I served as a Sister in the QARANC and in 2014 went with the QA association on a battlefield tour, I had Herbert's medals mounted and it was my great honour to wear them at the Menin gate and lay a wreath with the Wiltshire regt cap badge in his memory, on behalf of the family during the ceremony which takes place each evening there. My son went with his reserve Regt the following year and did the same

My grandfather was born after Herbert was killed and I suspect as a "replacement" I therefore feel a special attachment to Herbert as I probably wouldn't be here had he lived.

 we continue to honour him and HE WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN   

[KevinBattle]

Many thanks for bringing this back for Remembrance on such an appropriate time.

From your lead, St Nicholas Church in Studland has a WW1 Memorial plaque commemorating those with connections to the village.

It's about 1/3 rd the way down this web page, and Herbert's name is clearly legible. https://squirrelbasket.wordpress.com/my-picture-galleries/genealogy-places-and-churches/dorset-churches-studland-st-nicholas/ just above the photo of the list of Rectors.

 

From the opening post, Herbert WAS initially in the Dorsetshire Reg't, as Private 17140, but either transferred as the Wilts were short of reinforcements, or returning after having been wounded, sent where he was needed most.

 

Herbert's birth seems to have been registered in 1892 at Wareham, some 10 miles from Studland, presume the family moved to Studland at some time.

[Matt Whitbread]

Am a little late to the conversation but would like to know a little more about Herbert Henry Davis’ family. My wife’s great grandfather was Herbert Davis’ cousin. Would really like to get in contact with Sonya but not sure how to proceed??