4thGordons Posted 5 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Has your Turk M1893 had its original markings scrubbed in the mix.? The original markings downthe side of the reciever rail are partially scrubbed and it had a 1930s rebuild stamp on the top of the reciever. It has been rebarreled to 7.92mm. I have yet to run accross one in the original calibre. I agree the precise designations are a minefield - which is why I really stick to Enfields - these are just accidental pick ups! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Yes, the Turk Mausers in their original configuration are decidedly scarce. Their rebuild programme was comprehensive and ongoing - not much was missed. I did a bit of research on them when I was studying the markings etc. I have added a photo below showing the original markings found on the M1893 version. They were made relatively bare, with just the toughra stamped over the receiver and the standard manufacturers address and date marking down the siderail. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 6 October , 2012 Share Posted 6 October , 2012 The Chilean pattern Mausers might have come from the battle ship ALMIRANTE LATORRE which was being built for the Chilean Navy at Armstrong Whitworth It was purchased by Royal Navy and commissioned as HMS CANADA in September 1914 A ship that size would have several hundred rifles for use by crew for guard details and landing parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2012 The Chilean pattern Mausers might have come from the battle ship ALMIRANTE LATORRE which was being built for the Chilean Navy at Armstrong Whitworth It was purchased by Royal Navy and commissioned as HMS CANADA in September 1914 A ship that size would have several hundred rifles for use by crew for guard details and landing parties Yes, thanks - but these would have been M1912 Mausers as shown above. The current discussion is of earlier patterns hence the initial question. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 October , 2012 Share Posted 7 October , 2012 In addtion to the German Gew/Kar 1888 and 1898 in 7.92mm of course, I know about the 7mm Chilean (M1912) and Brazillian Mausers (M1908) in British service, and of course the Belgian M1889 and Turkish Mausers (M1890/1893) in 7.65mm, Serbian M1899 in 7mm? and Swedish M1896 in 6.5mm and farther afield Argentinian M1891 Mausers in 7.65mm but were M1893/5 Mausers in 7mm used anywhere in WWI. Just looking back at your original question in the OP and noticed you may have missed out a couple of the Turkish rifles, but they are not significant from a timeline perspective. The Turks also obtained from the Germans the M1887 (a variation of the G71/84 in blackpowder calibre) and then later on the M1903 (which was virtually a clone of the Gew98) They're not important rifles in the scheme of things as they didn't break 'new ground', but the Turkish story is quite interesting as it mirrors the development of the modern Mauser. This is because of the very clever "upgrade clause" which they had included in their supply contracts right from the start. As Mauser made improvements they had to be included. So the original contract for the M1887 was "upgraded" mid-production to require the supply of the M1890 in 7.65mm, which was then again later replaced with the M1893 version. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2012 and then later on the M1903 (which was virtually a clone of the Gew98) Its a bit off topic perhaps (but as it was basically the WWI design) do you know when that "later on" was? All the 7.92mm 1903 Turkish Mausers I have seen (they are VERY common and probably the cheapest bolt action milsurp rifle in the US -the only challenger being the Nagant 91/30 -for the past decade or so) and as you say virtually identical to the Gew98 with the exception of not having a "rollercoaster" rear sight, are dated in the 30s and 40s Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 October , 2012 Share Posted 8 October , 2012 No Chris, all the Turkish Mauser rifles (at least in their original configuration) are certainly On-Topic here as they all saw service during the GW (even the M1887) The original M1903 rifles (200,000+) were all made between 1903 and 1907 in the Mauser factory at Oberndorf and were all marked and dated over the receiver. Of course the Turk Mauser's that you speak of are the later post-war rebuilds during the 30's, which turned those older rifles from the war into a whole new animal. Many of those would have had the markings scrubbed and been restamped with the AS FA banner and date, so it is now extremely difficult to establish the origin. Some of the rebuilt rifles can still be found with the semblance of the original markings (in the Arabic script) which identifies them as the original 'skeleton' at least. EDIT. The original M1903 as supplied to the Turks featured a leaf sight from new, not the 'rollercoaster'/Lange Vizier sighting arrangement as found on the Gew98. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted 6 March , 2022 Share Posted 6 March , 2022 On 03/10/2012 at 11:13, TonyE said: Paul - can you post a picture of your rifle and give details of any markings, especially on the woodwork, please. I have posted this before but it is a nice picture of a Merchant Navy crew, probably from a minesweeping trawler or DAMS. Most have Ross rifles but two have Chilean M1912 7mm Mausers. Regards Tonye Terrific photo TonyE. Mickster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2022 1 hour ago, Mickster said: Terrific photo TonyE. Mickster Unfortunately TonyE died a number of years ago - he is still much missed by many of us. You can see this Arms forum -- where he was a frequent and knowledgeable contributor has an remembrance in his name : Arms and other weapons In grateful memory of Forum Pal Tony Edwards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted 7 March , 2022 Share Posted 7 March , 2022 21 hours ago, 4thGordons said: Unfortunately TonyE died a number of years ago - he is still much missed by many of us. You can see this Arms forum -- where he was a frequent and knowledgeable contributor has an remembrance in his name : Arms and other weapons In grateful memory of Forum Pal Tony Edwards Chris Thanks Chris. I will check out Tony's remembrance now. Mickster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2022 2 minutes ago, Mickster said: Thanks Chris. I will check out Tony's remembrance now. Mickster Actually - the above is it, but the real remembrance is the contribution he made to the forum over the years especially in the area of small arms ammunition. Here's Tony instructing my son (many moons ago!) in the basics of drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted 7 March , 2022 Share Posted 7 March , 2022 8 minutes ago, 4thGordons said: Actually - the above is it, but the real remembrance is the contribution he made to the forum over the years especially in the area of small arms ammunition. Here's Tony instructing my son (many moons ago!) in the basics of drill Much appreciated Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 March , 2022 Share Posted 9 March , 2022 (edited) On 07/03/2022 at 20:59, Mickster said: Much appreciated Chris. Indeed, I missed meeting Tony E by a few weeks when I went to a GWF Pals meet-up on a rare visit to London, but I knew of and appreciated his work long before then even thought things that go 'bang' are not quite my thing! Edited 9 March , 2022 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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