Help identifying regiment - possibly Scottish

[Culture-pig]

Hello All,

I’m looking for some help identifying my Grandfathers regiment. I only have his Attestation Card, a couple of photos, and family memory to help.

According to his card he was attested on December 16^th 1916 in Shoreditch (he was born in Hoxton, London), but that is all the info on the card. Family tradition has him as unfit for active service due to poor eyesight, though I don’t know if that would be a B or C medical rating. He only saw Home Service, being stationed in Glasgow and working at the docks. As far as I can tell, therefore, he was not entitled to any medals. At one point he apparently ruptured himself trying to lift a sack of grain and was treated in a hospital. He was also supposed to be a marksman, though how this fits with poor eyesight I’m not sure.

I’ve looked for his service record, but with no other information to cross check, there are simply too many sparsely populated entries for W J Kay to find the right one. Hopefully, with the help of this forum, I can go back with a bit more information and narrow it down.

This is a photo of my Granddad, which doesn’t give me any clues as to his regiment. Sorry for the poor images, I had to lower the resolution to get past the forums’ upload limits :-

However, this photo is of someone in a group which includes my Granddad, and the cap badge is a little clearer in terms of outline and shape at least:-

To me at least, the cap badge shape suggests The Cameronians, whose 16^th and 17^th Transport Workers Battalions were stationed in and around Glasgow. Can anyone tell which regiment this is from the photo’s please ?

Also, can anyone help me with the following questions please ?

• What were the duties of units stationed in Glasgow during 1917/18 please ?
  
• Would the Marksman accreditation indicate involvement in training, or is there another reason why a non-combatant would attain this badge ?
  
• Would it have been possible for my Grandfather to have been both unloading ships (or moving stores) and training recruits ?
  

Thanks in advance for your help.

Martin.

[gordon92]

Hello All,

I’m looking for some help identifying my Grandfathers regiment. I only have his Attestation Card, a couple of photos, and family memory to help.

According to his card he was attested on December 16^th 1916 in Shoreditch (he was born in Hoxton, London), but that is all the info on the card. Family tradition has him as unfit for active service due to poor eyesight, though I don’t know if that would be a B or C medical rating. He only saw Home Service, being stationed in Glasgow and working at the docks. As far as I can tell, therefore, he was not entitled to any medals. At one point he apparently ruptured himself trying to lift a sack of grain and was treated in a hospital. He was also supposed to be a marksman, though how this fits with poor eyesight I’m not sure.

I’ve looked for his service record, but with no other information to cross check, there are simply too many sparsely populated entries for W J Kay to find the right one. Hopefully, with the help of this forum, I can go back with a bit more information and narrow it down.

This is a photo of my Granddad, which doesn’t give me any clues as to his regiment. Sorry for the poor images, I had to lower the resolution to get past the forums’ upload limits :-

However, this photo is of someone in a group which includes my Granddad, and the cap badge is a little clearer in terms of outline and shape at least:-

To me at least, the cap badge shape suggests The Cameronians, whose 16^th and 17^th Transport Workers Battalions were stationed in and around Glasgow. Can anyone tell which regiment this is from the photo’s please ?

Also, can anyone help me with the following questions please ?

• What were the duties of units stationed in Glasgow during 1917/18 please ?
  
• Would the Marksman accreditation indicate involvement in training, or is there another reason why a non-combatant would attain this badge ?
  
• Would it have been possible for my Grandfather to have been both unloading ships (or moving stores) and training recruits ?
  

Thanks in advance for your help.

Martin.

The cap badge in the second photo is definitely that of the Scottish Rifles. Only the 1st Bn called themselves Cameronians. The cap badge on your grandfather's photo could easily be that of the Scottish Rifles also, but there is insufficient clarity to be sure.

[centurion]

Try converting the original photo to JPG format (possibly scanning the hard copy in Jpg) - you might be able to post this without too much (any) reduction of resolution as it's the 'native format' of the forum and the size allowance is now fairly generous - Gif can cause issues.

[Culture-pig]

Thanks for the info.

You're right, the originals were actually in Tiff and I thought they were in Jpeg. A little manipulation means that I can get my grandfathers photo in it's entirety, here :-

But the other photo still comes out too large for the upload limit. I have, however, managed to increase the section, to include my Grandfather, here :-

Thanks again for your help.

Martin.

[gordon92]

Thanks for the info.

You're right, the originals were actually in Tiff and I thought they were in Jpeg. A little manipulation means that I can get my grandfathers photo in it's entirety, here :-

But the other photo still comes out too large for the upload limit. I have, however, managed to increase the section, to include my Grandfather, here :-

Thanks again for your help.

Martin.

The revised images are still too blurry to make a definitive ID of the cap badge. In the second revised photo, I would say there is considerable doubt that your grandfather is wearing the badge of the Scottish Rifles. The badge may be the King's Own Scottish Borders or even possibly the Tyneside Scottish. While the KOSB wore diced glengarries, these may have been displaced during wartime by the simplified solid color pattern.

Do either of these two regiments fit his biographical profile?

[Culture-pig]

Hi,

No they don't. My Grandfather and his family came from London, there is no Scottish connection that I am aware of. I presumed he was posted to somewhere on Home Service where there was a vacancy because of his medical grading. He was conscripted and so by 1916/7 would not have had a choice of regiments.

I'll check out the KSOB and the Tyneside Scottish deployments to see if that sheds any light. The reason I suspected the Scottish Rifles was shape of the cap bade, the other candidates being Ayreshire Yeomanry or the Gordon Highlanders. The Gordons weren't stationed in Glasgow, and the Ayreshire Yeomanry were a mounted unit and there is no family stories of horses, even though a short lived training battalion was raised somewhere.

I know it;'s not definitive, but the second photo is of a group of soldiers, all dressed the same, around a bivouac. It would be reasonable to conclude they were all from the same unit, and the clearest cap badge is on the chap standing next to my Grandfather.

Thanks for your help.

Martin.

[FROGSMILE]

He appears to be wearing black bone buttons and that would fit with the Scottish Rifles theory.

[Culture-pig]

Hi All,

Thanls for all your help. Funnily enough I was seeing my father yesterday to tell him about my conclusions, when my brother in law turned up and my father got out the original photos to compare the cap badges with those in a book, There was a photo that I hadn't seen before of my grandfather as a corporal, and on the back was written his initials, the dates 1917-1919, and 17th Battalion, Scottish Rifles.

So, the surmise was correct. My brother in law said that my grandfather had told him that he had visited the Curragh racecourse in Ireland during his time in the army. So presumably 17th Batt, Scottish Rifles were posted to Ireland at some point, as well as Glasgow.

I now need to find out more about the postings and activities of the 17th Batt, Scottish Rifles.

Thanks again.

Martin.

[Alastair]

Perhaps the 1/7th Battalion is more likely? - if so, Gallipoli, Egypt, France

[FROGSMILE]

Hi All,

Thanls for all your help. Funnily enough I was seeing my father yesterday to tell him about my conclusions, when my brother in law turned up and my father got out the original photos to compare the cap badges with those in a book, There was a photo that I hadn't seen before of my grandfather as a corporal, and on the back was written his initials, the dates 1917-1919, and 17th Battalion, Scottish Rifles.

So, the surmise was correct. My brother in law said that my grandfather had told him that he had visited the Curragh racecourse in Ireland during his time in the army. So presumably 17th Batt, Scottish Rifles were posted to Ireland at some point, as well as Glasgow.

I now need to find out more about the postings and activities of the 17th Batt, Scottish Rifles.

Thanks again.

Martin.

17th (Transport Workers) Bn. Formed at Hamilton in Feb 1917. Stayed in the UK and supplied working parties at various ports, as required. (info from http://www.warpath.o...cameronians.htm)