Marching Pace

[mhurst]

Digging deep into my memories of marching with the ATC when I was a school (that was nearly fifty years ago, so they might be a bit hazy), and armed with stop watch and measured distances, I have come to the conclusion that a steady marching pace, as for a route march rather than on the parade ground, would be 3.5 mph.

Does anyone know whether this accords with marching paces which would have been used by staff officers in assessing how long it would take, say, to move a battalion from one place to the other along a good road?

[Stoppage Drill]

Nearer to 3mph given a 10 minute break every hour.

[Iain]

typically battalions were expected to be able to march 20 miles in a day, however this was`nt always possible due to the ass of en and material on the move and being at the ercy of the elements not to mention the attention of the germans.

seem to have a problem with my M???

[Stoppage Drill]

typically battalions were expected to be able to march 20 miles in a day, however this was`nt always possible due to the ass . . . on the move . . .

That's the sort of thing that would certainly slow you down (-:

[centurion]

When planning a march much would depend upon whether the unit was going to arrive at pre prepared accommodation at the end of the day or had to pitch camp as time had to be allowed to do this, in daylight if possible. Down the ages (starting with J Caesar) the equivalent of 3 mph has been taken as a standard - indeed a league (3 miles) originates from the distance that a fit legionnaire could march in an hour on a good road.

[jhill]

As an simple example of a Brigade move order and march table, one can look at this specimen from the Diary of the 7th Canadian Infantry Brigade on their move to the Somme in September 1916. The two pages are here:

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e043/e001052274.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e043/e001052275.jpg

The march started at MESNIL-DOMQEUER and ended at HALLOY-LES-PERNOIS. I measure this as perhaps nine miles. The battions arrived about six hours after they started. It was difficult to coordinate marches for formations of any size. From what I have read this march was entirely typical. Thus, the notational speed of quick march would have been one of the least of the factors involved.

Or so it seems to me.

[NigelS]

Down the ages (starting with J Caesar) the equivalent of 3 mph has been taken as a standard - indeed a league (3 miles) originates from the distance that a fit legionnaire could march in an hour on a good road.

Would Naismith's rule have been taken into account when marching in mountainous terrain?

Here's a tale from The History of the London Rifle Brigade 1859 - 1919 which might be of interest:

It was determined this year to put a time for a march to Brighton that would really want some beating, so a team consisting of 2 officers, 5 sergeants, and 53 other ranks, was trained under Capt. R.H. Husey, Lieut. E. L. Large, and Clr.-Sergt. F.H. Wallis, and the march took place on 18

^th

April. The 52½ miles were covered in 14 hours 23 minutes: halts occupied 1 hour 39 minutes. The nett time therefore was 12 hours 44 minutes, which shows that the rate of marching was 4.12 miles per hour.

The march was reported in many papers, not only throughout the country, but in several circulating abroad, one of which was The China Critic.

It might be said that a feat of this kind has no practical value, but there is no doubt that the valuable experience gained by those who took part enabled them with advice born of practical experience to help others in the more serious field of war, and the fact that a reputation had to be sustained was responsible for some of the good work done. For instance, in 1917 the 1

^st

Battalion L.R.B. made a long “trek” from Laventie to Arras. The winter had been spent in the trenches, and the men were by no means fit for long marches on bad roads. On the second day 19 miles had to be covered, and the battalion was marching at the rear of the Brigade. After the first hour’s march the roadside was scattered with men who had fallen out from units in front. This began to have a bad effect on the men of the L.R.B., many of whom had only recently been posted to the battalion from other regiments, and the second-in-command and the M.O., who were marching in the rear, had a busy time persuading men to keep going. At the end of the march only eighteen men, about a quarter of the number dropped by other battalions, had fallen out, but this was not the L.R.B. standard. That night Lieut.-Col. Husey interviewed the defaulters, and next morning addressed “a few words” on marching to the battalion before it moved off for another long march. He said he had heard the remark, “It’s all very well for senior officers to talk about marching; they always ride a horse and don’t know how heavy a pack feels after the first five or six miles.” For the information of those who were unaware of the fact, he told them he had marched 52 ½ miles on his own feet, carrying a pack most of the way, in 14 hours and 23 minutes, and therefore from his own experience knew what a stiff and trying march felt like. With a few other remarks, which were characteristic of him , he conveyed to the men that he knew all there was to know about marching. The next day only three men fell out, their feet being so bad that they had to go into hospital.

NigelS

[nigelfe]

From Fd Svc Pocketbook 1914.

An average march for a large column in normal conditions is 15 miles per day, with a rest at least once a week.

Small commands of seasoned troops can cover 25 miles a day under favourable conditions.

Infantry march in column of fours, 10 yards between coys, 20 yards between battalions.

There was lots of guidance about night marches, dusty conditions, snow and ice, care of feet, care of horses, etc, etc

[Crunchy]

The German Field Regulations 1908 say that infantry, under favourable circumstances , could march one mile in 16 to 19 minutes.

regards

Chris

[spof]

Gordon Corrigan in Mud, Blood and Poppycock quotes the standard British Army march as "120 30 inch paces per minute". At 7200 30 inch paces per hour, you get 216000 inches or 3.4 mph. IF you take outthe 10 minute break per hour it comes down to 2.8.mph. Rifle units - Rifle Brigade, KRRC etc. - prided themselves on marching faster than othe infantry units.

Of course, I imagine this assumes a nice smooth road free from artillery and other traffic.

Glen

[bill24chev]

The London Rifle Brigade walk to Brighton was a very good effort. Lt.Col. Hurley states that it was done with pack( and I presume rifle and other equipment),

The 30 mile march that is one of the commando tests to be completed in under 8 hours (a shorter time for officers) carrying about 20Kg so nearly 60 miles in less than 15 hours,with rests, is good going. If the LRB had full marching order the weight would probably have bean a good bit heavier so a carry comparison with the 12mile load carry would be relevant, 12 miles in 4hrs 40mins with about 40kg in a formed body of men.

We must not forget that this was a TF Battalion.

[dycer]

From a T.F. Pioneer Battalion History.

The Marne(July 1918)

"During the days(17th to 20th) the Battalion marched 110 kilos,carrying full equipment,in the broiling sun,a feat of which they have every reason to feel proud".

George

[tharkin56]

the March in Brighton if it the one I'm recalling was done in 1914, many of the men were subsequently killed.

As search in Ruvigny reveals that the families of the men must have been proud for it to mentioned in the book

[NigelS]

the March in Brighton if it the one I'm recalling was done in 1914...

It was 1914.

Rifle units - Rifle Brigade, KRRC etc. - prided themselves on marching faster than othe infantry units.

and, it appears that this may have taken on a competitive nature when it came to marching bands; again from 'The History of the LRB 1859 - 1919' , reporting on the conclusion of a two-day brigade (169th Infantry, 56th (1st London) Divn) sports competition which was held in the grounds of the chateau at Grand Rullecourt in july 1917:

...and the day finished with "Retreat" played by the massed bands of the brigade. A point of interest in this performance was the ever-increasing rapidity of the step. All four bands marched together, starting to the British Grenadiers by the fife band of the 2nd Londons at 100 to the minute, followed by the QWR at 110, quickened to 120 by the QVR, and finishing with 140 for the LRB.

NigelS

[mhurst]

Thanks to all. It seems that I was a bit optimistic in my estimate of the pace, but it's been a long time!

[Old Tom]

re Rifles and other Light Infantry. Steps or paces per minute should not be confused with speed. I have an uncertain memory that the standard rate is/was 120 per minute with a 30" pace ( as stated above ) but light infantry used 140 per minute but with a shorter pace with Rifle Regiments somewhate higher rates. These were for parades and the like with much the same intention as when marching past in slow and quick time like the Guards on the Queen's Birthday Parade, Light Infantry would march past in quick and double time. Tactical moves are another matter.

Old Tom

[Crunchy]

Tom,

That is a good point re the Light Infantry pace.

I recall the route march fitness tests we had to complete in full kit, including the large back pack, in the 1960's - 1980's. The standard five mile test was completed in one hour. It was a very fast march and it couldn't be sustained at that pace for much more than an hour. The standard nine mile test in full kit was completed in two hours without a break, and again it was a fast pace that couldn't be sustained over much greater distances. In our regiment it had to be achieved in one and half hours, but this was done a steady jog all the way, and we were knackered at the end of it. But these were primarily physical fitness tests. Long route marches ( ie two to three days marching for around seven hours a day in full battle kit) were usually done, IIRC, at between 2.5 and 3 mph including a ten minute break every hour. It was an easy steady pace.

Regards

Chris

[Moonraker]

I too am impressed about the speed that could (can) be attained by a soldier with full equipment. OK, I'm three times the age of a youngish soldier, but I can walk up to 25 miles without too much trouble - but that's wearing lightweight clothing and boots and with a rucksack containing only food and drink.

On a cautionary note, I've often seen accounts by WWI soldiers giving the distances they marched on Salisbury Plain and have often noted an over-estimation of up to 15 per cent. This was particularly true of members of the First Canadian Contingent arriving at Patney & Chirton and Amesbury stations in October 1914 and marching to their camping-sites. Such exaggeration is understandable, given many of their trains arrived in the middle of the night after journeys from Plymouth. And in the case of Patney & Chirton the march meant trudging up a steep hill.

Moonraker

[SteveMarsdin]

used by staff officers in assessing how long it would take, say, to move a battalion from one place to the other along a good road?

A days march and marching pace are very different concepts and would vary considerably between training ground, rear area maneouvres and approach to contact. The weather would also be a major factor. Staff often got it wrong, expecting too great a distance to be achieved. In the French Army in 1914 it even led to Joffre issuing an order, in the run up to the Battle of the Frontiers, not to unduly tire the troops by too long approach marches or stages. He was very concerned that, in the build up of troops in early August, some divisional commanders had exhausted their soldiers, For example, on 9-10/08/14 the 113eRI, marching north from St. Mihiel along the Meuse valley, in the heat of a canicule, 2/3 of the regiment were dropped and 6 ambulances plus requisitioned cars had to recover those suffering from exhaustion and sun-stroke. There was also one case of self-mutilation. Their divisional commander (9eDI) General Peslin was blamed for poor planning and organisation of the march by his corps commander (Brochin) and in "disgrace" took his own life that evening.

[Chris_Baker]

See http://www.1914-1918.net/marchingpace.html