Was there a British attempt to kidnap De Valera in New York in 1918/19

[corisande]

I have come across a couple of references to a British attempt to kidnap de Valera in New York which I cannot substantiate

Boyle was accused of plotting to kidnap Eamon De Valera, President of Sinn Fein, who was living in the city, the state dept compelled the Foreign Office to withdraw Boyle’s mission. The Boyle mission was liquidated, and Boyle was sent to the staff of the Prince of Wales who was visiting Canada. (The Prince of Wales visit to Canada was Aug to Oct 1919)

Boyle was the same David Boyle who was in charge of the Police Adviser's Office from Jan 1921in Dublin Castle.

The reference to the de Valera kidnapping is in both the Private Papers of Viscount Davidson and in "the Secret Servant" by Cave Brown

At the time of any kidnapping Boyle was working under either Cumming or Basil Thomson and would have been before Aug 1919. Boyle's wife was certainly living in New York in Nov 1919 when a son was born.

Can anyone give me any further info on any such attempt that the British made to kidnap de Valera, I cannot find anything in any of the reference books that I have.

[Jack Sheldon]

I have some doubts about this story, frankly. There is no mention of any such thing in Tim Pat Coogan's major biography and, although he was a major thorn in the side of Wilson, he was after all, a US citizen and I find it incredible that the British would have wanted to kidnap him in those circumstances, or even have considered it. It simply would not have been worth the candle - and where would they have taken him? Coogan suggests (p 144) that by the time his visit to the US was over, had he fallen into their hands, they would simply have deported him back there.

Jack

[centurion]

There is a world of difference between "plotting to" and "attempt to". The former can cover a very wide remit including the most tentative and vague suggestions. I can understand keeping tabs on him however. Knowing who he visits and who visits him for example might be useful to British Intelligence.

[corisande]

Yes, I would have written it off if the story had not come up in two independent sources. But as I cannot find anything else, I was seeing if anyone here could give me a quick fix. I can try the FBI files which should show something if it did happen.

Because of the nature of Boyle's work, there is little in print. For example in WW2 all I can get is.

1940 Jul. A new Section VII of SIS began to identify stay-behind agents. Valentine Vivian, David Boyle and Gambier-Parry trained and equipped 6 agents who could operate rado sets in the event of German invasion of Britain. (MI6, Keith Jeffery)

1948. He was invested as a Companion, Order of St. Michael and St. George (C.M.G.). Citation says "attached to a department of the Foreign Office"

[centurion]

Yes, I would have written it off if the story had not come up in two independent sources. But as I cannot find anything else, I was seeing if anyone here could give me a quick fix. I can try the FBI files which should show something if it did happen.

Given that the FBI did not exist in WW1 did they inherit files from somewhere?

[corisande]

I am trying to find out about de Valera, rather than conducting a discussion on the FBI

The agency was established in 1908 as the Bureau of Investigation (BOI). Its name was changed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1935.

Can I get the discussion back to de Valera?

[Steven Broomfield]

Probably a touch un-British, but I'm surprised they weren't contemplating assassination. I tend to agree with cent that "planning" and "attempting" might be different things.

[corisande]

I too am surprised that they were not contemplating assassination, but what I am trying to ascertain is if there is any references to what was going on in New York

I have just found in "Michael Collins and the Anglo Irish War" by Hittle p186

David Boyle had most recently served as number two to Major Norman Twaites, the head of MI1c's undeclared station in New York City. The MI1c station operated semi clandestinely under diplomatic cover at the British Mission in Manhatten and had been investigating various radicals arriving in New York from abroad, including IRB radicals, throughout the First World War. .... Boyle took command as acting head of station when Thwaites left New York for London in Jan 1920 ... Security concerns....about the intrusive British "diplomats" prompted MI1c to lower its profile considerably. In March 1920 Boyle closed the MI1c station at the British Mission and departed the United States for Canada

Given the nature of the Mission, one assumes little came out about what exactly it did

[centurion]

I am trying to find out about de Valera, rather than conducting a discussion on the FBI

The agency was established in 1908 as the Bureau of Investigation (BOI). Its name was changed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1935.

Can I get the discussion back to de Valera?

Don't get tetchy it was a valid question.

[Jack Sheldon]

I think that one of the problems in coming to a firm conclusion on this type of story is that men such as De Valera, Collins, Barry etc have attracted a great deal of, frequently romanticised, legend over the years, so it is often hard to separate fact from fiction. Add into this the tendency of writers to repeat in their books, uncritically and without checking, things they have read elsewhere - and this is a much wider point than anything to do specifically with Irish history - and false confirmations occur. Just because a false piece of information is encountered in several different places, it does not mean that it becomes correct.

In the absence of proof the only thing to fall back on is inherent probability so, in this case, it seems to me entirely probable that somebody working for the British would go to some lengths to keep tabs on what De Valera was doing in New York, the city of his birth. It would have been positively negligent in the circumstances had they not. It would not have been a difficult operation. He was living openly in the Waldorf Hotel, cultivating contacts amongst the Irish American community, so as to obtain political and financial backing for his plans. He was developing links with the US administration and pressing Wilson for recognition of the right to self-determination, so the least that can be said was that he was by far the most prominent Irish fugitive from British justice in the United States at the time.

Set against that background and the critical importance of UK/US relations, I ask myself again why the British would risk even contemplating action against an American citizen in America and I can think of no grounds.

Jack

[corisande]

Again I tend to agree with you, but I am trying to see if any readers here can add any evidence. The absence of evidence is not as they say evidence of absence. Where I am now is

• British secret service in New York. Accused of plotting to kidnap Eamon De Valera, President of Sinn Fein, who was living in the city, the state dept compelled the Foreign Office to withdraw Boyle’s mission. The Boyle mission was liquidated, and Boyle was sent to the staff of the Prince of Wales who was visiting Canada. (This is the statement that I am trying to verify. The Prince of Wales visit to Canada was Aug to Oct 1919, which would tie in with the closure of the SIS station in Aug 1919)
  
• Once WW1 ended, the US was not prepared to co-operate in surveillence of Irish republicans in the US. de Valera arrived in the USA in Jun 1919. He had three aims: to ask for official recognition of the Irish Republic, to obtain a loan to finance the work of the new government and to secure the support of the American people for the republic. de Valera stayed in the USA until December 1920. The USA forced the SIS to close its station in August 1919 (British Spies, Irish Rebels, p113) but the SIS soon established a new operation in New York under cover of the Passport Control Office, which continued to track Irish seperatists. So presumably it was to this clandestine operation that Boyle returned from Canada
  
• David Boyle had most recently served as number two to Major Norman Twaites, the head of MI1c's [MI1c appears to have been the Secret Intelligence Service which became later MI6] undeclared station in New York City. The MI1c station operated semi clandestinely under diplomatic cover at the British Mission in Manhatten and had been investigating various radicals arriving in New York from abroad, including IRB radicals, throughout the First World War. .... Boyle took command as acting head of station when Thwaites left New York for London in Jan 1920 ... Security concerns....about the intrusive British "diplomats" prompted MI1c to lower its profile considerably. In March 1920 Boyle closed the MI1c station at the British Mission and departed the United States for Canada Michael Collins and the Anglo-Irish War, Hittle
  
• 1920 Mar 22. Arrives Liverpool on SS Empress of France from St John, New Brunswick, Canada. He is staying at Carlton Club and is a Civil Servant.
  

The evidence shows that there were various "odd" goings on in New York with MI1c and that Boyle was part of them. The evidence ties with the times he moved to Canada.

• I have not found his arrival time in New York.
  
• The British SIS operation in New York was certainly closed and the dates fit with Boyle's movements, but whether the reason was a plot on de Valera in particular or "merely" British undercover activites in general against the Irish in New York, I have not got anywhere on.
  

[Jack Sheldon]

I do not think that I can usefully add anything, except to say that the points you have raised would tend to underline my supposition about intelligence gathering targeting de Valera. I shall be interested to see if you manage to close the circle on this. I assume that if there was any evidence in, say, the de Valera papers, somebody would have turned it up by now. It would, after all, be a pretty explosive discovery.

Jack

[corisande]

Thanks for your input, as you say nobody has turned up here with any evidence. However the gathering of documents for SIS people is always difficult, specially in this case where Britain was running a spy centre in New York against the wishes of the US government.

I have been able to turn up a fair amount on Boyle now, but not the bit I was looking for !

Current notes on Boyle - click - he was certaily a "colourful" character

[Carmania]

The only reference to Boyle that I could find in West African newspapers was this cutting from the Gold Coast Leader of 21st October 1916:

Aled

[corisande]

Aled

Thanks for that interesting find.

The trouble with spooks like Boyle is that one is unsure whether to take "Acting District Commissioner" at face value, or assume it was a cover for what he was actually doing !

[jdoyle]

a David Boyle arrived in NY on the SS Celtic on 10th Oct 1919 according to the indexes. The names are not readable but against them is the stamp Diplomat In Transit.

he is David Hugh Mack Boyle when landing in the USA in 1924 with a host of others as Diplomats. Seems to be a lot of to and fro UK <==> USA in the passenger lists up to 1935. A return sailing from Nigeria in 1914.

Ned O'Brien's witness statement has some info re the activities of some of the Irish in NY at the time and mentions a basic op against British intelligence

http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS0597.pdf#page=59

[corisande]

jdoyle thanks for that. I think that I have nearly all of his voyages - click - which tie up with the background I have on him.

The WS is new to me and very interesting, though difficult to know what to make of it. My feeling is that the story is substantially correct, but whether A D Pate is David Boyle or not is anyone's guess, unless we can find a source that says the British were using that as an alias for Boyle

[jdoyle]

i don't think Pate and Boyle are the same man but the WS does give an indication that there were some sort of operations going on at the time. Not quite Section N stuff.

HRH PoW was also on the Berengia in 1924 travelling to the US. Possibly Boyle was working for him once again.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/prince-of-wales-visits-usa

[corisande]

Yes, if you look at Boyle's entry on the manifest, you can see his fare was paid by the Prince of Wales. There is a large POW entourage (includes Louis Mountbatten) on board.

The MI1c office in New York was certainly a strange affair. The odd thing about the de Valera story is that the rest of the facts that came from the original documents on Boyle do check out, including the stuff with the Prince of Wales. I seem to have establised that the New York office with Thwaites and Boyle was involved in checking on Irishmen in USA (no surprise there), whether that went on to "dirty tricks" is, I suppose, unlikely to be chronicled. The indexing of the FBI files is difficult, especially if a lot of aliases are involved.

It is a bit strange that SIS chose to put Boyle into Dublin (He joined ADRIC on 17 Aug 1920 and he ran Winter's office in Dublin Castle from Jan 1921) if his cover had been blown in New York. Or putting it differently, did the IRA in 1920/1921 have any idea on his CV. Given the normal ease with which Collins accessed British data, the presumption must be that Boyle's past stayed hidden in SIS in London

I have no evidence that Boyle was on Bloody Sunday hit list or example. Can anyone disprove that?