british 18 pounder case paint markings

[garfyboy]

Hi all

can anyone help me with any pics of a 18 pounder case paint markings? i have just put one together and wish to paint as original with stripes etc, it is fitted with a shrapnel timer fuze

thanks

Andy

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Hi all

can anyone help me with any pics of a 18 pounder case paint markings? i have just put one together and wish to paint as original with stripes etc, it is fitted with a shrapnel timer fuze

thanks

Andy

Andy,

I cannot find any examples of 18 pounder shells with painted stripes around the casing, are you sure that was done in WW1 ?

Here are some examples without the painted stripes.

Regards,

LF

[auchonvillerssomme]

The only 18pdr shrapnel with a band painted was the practice shell which had a yellow band round the centre, 18pdr were lead colour, the only colour on the shell was red lead around the last ring of the fuze, where it attaches to the shell body.

[calibre792x57.y]

If as I think Mash Valley is referring to the projectile, then the paint scheme for an 18 pdr shrapnel shell is black overall with a two inch red tip (below the fuze). About half an inch below this is a red three quarter inch 'filled' band. About half way down the body is information in three lines which denote the place and date of fitting the fuze and then beneath that the place of filling and beneath this again the date. So, typically 'W 11/15' over 'W' over ' 7/14'. This is stencilled in white. The only paint marks on the cartridge case are on the base in red giving information about the nature of the propellant and the lot number, the place of filling e.g. 'W' for Woolwich, the date of filling and Mark of the shell. From 'Explanatory List of Service Markings January 1917'. Hope this assists - SW

[garfyboy]

Thanks both, apologies for the confusion, sommewalker you are correct, it is the projectile I was talking about.

I have one with two red bands but wondered what others there were so I can paint one up to original spec, I found a pic of one with two yellow bands ??? And also others with a variety of colours, are these made up or were there such colours

Regards

Andy

[squirrel]

According to the Handbook for the 18 pdr Field Gun 1913, Mk1 sharpnel was painted black and Mk11 "lead" coloured. It mentions the Mk 111 but not the colour the shell was painted.

Osprey British Artillery 1914-1919 Field Artillery gives the description as above by Sommewalker and also for reduced charge, painted white with a broad black band below the fuse.

[MikB]

Decent pic here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:18pdrShrapnelRound.jpg

Regards,

MikB

[Tony N]

Here's one I've had for quite a few years, obviously repainted.

Tony

[calibre792x57.y]

Well the paint scheme does vary somewhat according to the calibre of the shell, but generally HE shell is buff (dirty-white) overall. The 18 pdr then has a half-inch ring painted around the body about two inches down from the fuze. This may be a hatched ring depending on whether the ammunition is suitable for desert and tropical conditions. Below this about the centre is a green band about 1.5 inches deep, denoting amatol filled, with figures denoting the % of ammonium nitrate and trotyl stencilled beneath: typically 80/20. There is additional stencilling denoting the presence of a gaine fitted inside the shell, or not and the place and date of filling. 4.5 inch howitzer shell is similar but the stencilling includes the calibre and mark number. There were variations in the overall paint such as green for smoke shell (although this may be post-War) and grey for chemical. Star shell was usually black and incendiary red and buff. Common shell was black with a white tip and a red band. There were many variations within these schemes. The paint was not very durable under the handling it received in the field and is not often discernable in contemporary photos. The vast majority of surviving shells seem prone to repainting by museum staff or by collectors so I say I have seen very few genuine examples, and those mostly in France or Belgium. I'm sure there are members who can give you chapter and verse compared with my sketchy knowledge.- SW

[garfyboy]

Thanks for all the info chaps, I wonder if there is any sort of manual explaining the different colour schemes/ details etc out there, is seems quite unusual that this subject is so sketchy, I will have to delve deeper

Cheers

Andy

[133.R]

Hi

two 18 pdr shells with original paint....

Regards Sven

[TonyE]

Thanks for all the info chaps, I wonder if there is any sort of manual explaining the different colour schemes/ details etc out there, is seems quite unusual that this subject is so sketchy, I will have to delve deeper

Cheers

Andy

As Sommewalker posted above, the information is in 'Explanatory List of Service Markings January 1917'. The 1918 edition is available as a reprint.

Regards

TonyE

[Druid_Ian]

Try this manual for more info http://www.scribd.com/doc/38628183/British-Notes-on-the-Ammunition-for-QF-13pr-and-QF-18pr-Horse-and-Field-Equipment-1917

[garfyboy]

Thanks all for recent posts, i love the pics of the original shells, thanks, also the manual is very interesting, i now have a better idea

cheers

[133.R]

I´ve got a 18 pdr shell today. On the head a No.80 fuse ( no markings but definitely a no.80 fuse with adapter).But the body of this shell is round about 1,5 cm shorter as all the other 18pdr in my collection. Maybe i´ve fail to see some points .....

The markings on the new 18pdr are hard to read ( G.K. 255? VII 18 PDR and some other markings ...the date looks like 22.7.18 )

Maybe anybody can tell me why this shell is shorter......

...

[Guest]

I'm looking for a fuze for my display 18 pdr projectile and case. If you know anyone selling one, that would be great.

 

[peregrinvs]

1 hour ago, mrshawnd77 said:

I'm looking for a fuze for my display 18 pdr projectile and case. If you know anyone selling one, that would be great.

 

Is your shell an HE or a shrapnel? If the latter, AKM Militaria have a couple of No.80 fuzes but without the adaptor ring to attach the fuze to the shell body.

[Tomo.T]

Here's a couple of my efforts at restoring 18 pdr rounds. The HE colour is Middle Buff  359 ( BS 381c ) which was also painted on the cartridge bases with red lettering. Shrapnel  cartridge cases were left plain with black lettering on the base. This was done to aid identification when the rounds were in a limber.

TROTYL was an early name for Trinitrotoluene now better known as TNT.

[peregrinvs]

A little note on paint colours. Middle Buff for HE was introduced in 1939. The HE colour prior to that was Golden Yellow. I think the confusion arises because they are similar colours and aged Golden Yellow can discolour to a Middle Buff like colour.

 

However, that’s not a suggestion to Tomo.T that he repaints his shell (great restoration BTW) as every paint batch in WWI would have been slightly different and I’m sure the colour above is well within the range of those that existed at the time.

 

I restored an 18 Pounder HE shell some years ago and ended up using Humbrol Matt Trainer Yellow for the body colour.

Edited 24 March , 2019 by peregrinvs

[Tomo.T]

Thankyou for the correction, I am happy to go with the faded Golden Yellow explanation ! 

[peregrinvs]

Yes, it looks good. No further work required.

 

You often see WWI British HE shells repainted in various shades of mustard yellow, so it’s a common misconception. It is correct for WWII though.

[Crouchie]

I have what I think is an 18 pdr Shrapnel shell casing, minus the driving band. It is red. No trace of black paint on it at all. I am certain it isn't a repaint. The only internet reference to completely red painted shell casings I can find are French QF 75 shrapnels. This is 3.25 Inches across the base. Can anyone give me information on it? Thanks

Edited 28 June , 2019 by Crouchie

[peregrinvs]

My immediate thought was that it might be an undercoat of red oxide primer as British shrapnel shells were painted black. However, whilst the Germans did this I've never heard of it being done to British shells. To me the paint looks like it's on top of the rust, which might be a clue as to when it was done. Although the missing drive band and lack of paint underneath it complicates things.

[Crouchie]

That is now two of us confused. I did also wonder if it was a repaint, but then why would someone stick it base down in mud and leaf litter in the middle of brambles in Trones Wood? The other items seen in there were mostly live, and left well alone, but had the usual rust finish with no paint remaining. .

 

Edited 29 June , 2019 by Crouchie

[Guest]

Hello. First post, but I have a question about the QF 18pdr shrapnel.

 

I have a shell collection, but I decided early on I didn't want to deal with real shells (heavy, expensive in good shape, some ground finds dangerous and/or in rough shape) so I make my own replicas using 3d printing. Unfortunately, some of the fuzes are a bit hard to come by, so I usually go for resin replicas or originals where I can get them.

 

In this case, I wanted to complete an 18pdr display (casing, primer protection and No.80 fuze transport cover are original) so I got a resin shell with fuze from a website, for a fraction of the cost a real one would have been. To my utter surprise, the fuze that came with it was not a No.80, but a No.94 (and one that was made as a No.94 not a modified N0.83, to boot).

 

The thorny issue here is painting - I know the No.94 fuze has a brass body and copper alloy rings and cap similar to the No.83 from which it derived, but the diagram also specifies that the two time disks are "lacquered blue". Well, I've never seen a British WW1 shell with blue markings before, so what kind of blue are we talking about here? This kind of blue, like the post-WW2 practice shots, or something more akin to the blue used on some German shells? Or maybe even a went for a Police Box blue?

 

Also, while we're at it, the manual also states that only Mark I 18pdr shrapnel shells were painted black, all the rest being painted "lead colour". Again, what does that mean exactly in terms of shade? I have seen examples with original paint and they look pretty black to me, even though they were definitely Mark III-VIs.

 

Can anybody give me more information? Thanks!

Edited 16 October , 2019 by Guest