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12th tank corps?


barker59
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Hello, I have posted previously on this link but thought I'd move it as i now have more information regarding my granddad

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=160047

After my mum found the medal with the number 7 96536 and then an E

I was able to put that into ancestry and found lots of info on my granddad.

He was also awarded medal victory TC/101 b7

It seems he was previously in the rifle brigade (TR) 19th TR Btn 14780 but I can't find any information on his enlistment.

He was wounded in action 21/8/18. I'm sorry to show my ignorance but what battle would that be?

If anyone can help with more info or point me in the right direction it would be marvellous. Can't believe my lucky break so far though.

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This site will help with 12th Battalion's action on 21 August 1918: https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1918/100days/albert---21-to-29-august-1918-4th-army/12-battalion-21-august-1918

You will note that of the 30 tanks that started, only two failed to rally and that one of these had one man killed and five wounded when the carburettor caught fire. This ties in so well with your relative's injuries that I would suggest the chances are that that was his tank. I will search my records further to try to identify it.

Gwyn

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After looking at this it's a little more complicated than I'd hoped, because although we have an inventory of the tanks operated by 12th Battalion just two days before this action, not all of them entered action, and we don't know which ones did. Nevertheless, on the assumption that the tank we're looking for was only fit for salvage after the fire, then by tracing the known histories of the other tanks operated by 12th Battalion at this time, we can narrow the field down to just one tank in A Company, with another two possibles though unlikely. In B Company there's seven candidates with another two possible but unlikely, and in C Company there's no less than eleven candidates.

If you're anywhere near London you might like to consider visiting The National Archives and the Imperial War Museum. The NA have the records of 12th Battalion available in WO95/100. The IWM has two diaries of men who served with 12th Tank Battalion at this time, C. B. Brown and R. G. Forward. If you're near Brussels then you may wish to visit the Musee Royale de la Armee, which has preserved in its original paint scheme a Mark IV tank that served with 12th Battalion. The Tank Museum Archives at Bovington in Dorset is also well worth a visit.

Gwyn

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The papers show that George began service on 6 March 1917. That was his mobilisation date: he may have been attested or deemed to have enlisted at an earlier date. He served with the 19th Battalion of the Training Reserve at Seaford before transferring to the Machine Gun Corps on 31 May 1917. On 27 July the Heavy Branch MGC became the Tank Corps.

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Gwyn,

Thank you so much for taking time to look into this for me. I think I can get into London and will certainly look up those records at the NA

Chris, again thank you so much for the info you have supplied. I think on one of the papers I saw he had given a date of January 5th 1914, which would have made him only 16 years 4 months I think!

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  • 4 months later...

Are there war diaries on the 12th Tank Corps. I have ww1 medals to a Lt G W Underdown who was commanding Lioness L18. I have his officers papers but no other details on his movements.

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Chris O,

2/Lt G.W. Underdown is recorded as the commander of L12 'Lioness', a Mark IV female serial 2713 of 4th Section 12th Battalion on 15 July 1918. I then have 2/Lt Underdown and this tank as 2nd Section A Company 12th Battalion on 19 August - by this time the tank had become L18. At some point (19 August?) the tank suffered a penetration just forward of the right hand sponson. Do the papers you have add anything to this, please?

Gwyn

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry Gwyn , sadly I have no other details on this event. His papers show that after ww1 he applied to the Indian Marine and served in WW2 as a officer in the Navy.Thanks for taking the time to help I do appreciate it

Chris

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  • 4 months later...

Gwyn - Hi another 12th Bat related ID query. I'm trying to firm up on a Bat for Lieut PG Clark. There appear to be six Lt/2Lt Clarks without an "e" in the Nov 1918 Army List in the Tank Corps. (1) 2Lt ADM Clark 1577e 05/02/18 who appears to be A Coy 2nd Bat at Amiens (2) 2Lt AJ Clark 1577d 20/01/18 who also appears to be A Coy 2nd Bat at Amiens (3) 2Lt CW Clark 1578b 10/01/16 who is given as Act Maj with an MC (4) 2Lt JE Clark 1577b 19/12/17, who appears to be 6th Bat (5) Lt JT Clark 1576b 01/07/17, who is given as Act Capt and (6) Lt PG Clark 1576 01/07/17. I am wondering if PG Clark is 12th Bat as a 2Lt Clark (with no initial) turns up on the account of the action of 8th Oct 1918. Having dismissed (1, 2 & 4) as being with other battalions, and (3 & 5) as being too senior PG Clark is the only one unaccounted for. However he (nor any other Clark) appears on the nominal roll of 12th Bat officers leaving UK in the Bat History (though there is a Lieut JP Clarke, with an "e", but he is noted as Act Capt (01/06/18) and it is a 2/Lt Clark without an "e" that is mentioned in the text of he action. On another thread someone suggests that this Clark is in fact 2Lt F Clarke (with an "e"). Clearly were it PG Clark it should be Lt not 2Lt and if its F Clarke the account is misspelt as its with no "e" (an easy mistake) but he too is missing from the nominal roll??? Perhaps PG Clark is not on the 12Bat History roll as he is RE attached ? Or perhaps he is another battalion all together ?? Any thoughts ?

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Hi. Sorry, I can find J.P. CLARKE in 12th Battalion, but no P.G. CLARK. (or P. CLARK or CLARKE) for that matter. As I may have explained before though, my databases are designed so as to follow tanks around rather than officers. As a result whereas they're good at tracing the former they may not be reliable for the latter.

Gwyn

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J P Clarke is John Peard Clarke formerly of C Coy HSMGC and commander of C18 on 15 Sep 1916.

Presumably you are looking for Peter Gordon Clark - 51 Highland Division RE later attached Tank Corps

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Hi Stephen, yes JP would be nice but I am looking at Peter Gordon Clark !!

J P Clarke is John Peard Clarke formerly of C Coy HSMGC and commander of C18 on 15 Sep 1916.

Presumably you are looking for Peter Gordon Clark - 51 Highland Division RE later attached Tank Corps

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  • 11 months later...
  • 2 years later...
On 29/06/2013 at 01:21, ghchurcher said:

Gwyn - Hi another 12th Bat related ID query. I'm trying to firm up on a Bat for Lieut PG Clark. There appear to be six Lt/2Lt Clarks without an "e" in the Nov 1918 Army List in the Tank Corps. (1) 2Lt ADM Clark 1577e 05/02/18 who appears to be A Coy 2nd Bat at Amiens (2) 2Lt AJ Clark 1577d 20/01/18 who also appears to be A Coy 2nd Bat at Amiens (3) 2Lt CW Clark 1578b 10/01/16 who is given as Act Maj with an MC (4) 2Lt JE Clark 1577b 19/12/17, who appears to be 6th Bat (5) Lt JT Clark 1576b 01/07/17, who is given as Act Capt and (6) Lt PG Clark 1576 01/07/17. I am wondering if PG Clark is 12th Bat as a 2Lt Clark (with no initial) turns up on the account of the action of 8th Oct 1918. Having dismissed (1, 2 & 4) as being with other battalions, and (3 & 5) as being too senior PG Clark is the only one unaccounted for. However he (nor any other Clark) appears on the nominal roll of 12th Bat officers leaving UK in the Bat History (though there is a Lieut JP Clarke, with an "e", but he is noted as Act Capt (01/06/18) and it is a 2/Lt Clark without an "e" that is mentioned in the text of he action. On another thread someone suggests that this Clark is in fact 2Lt F Clarke (with an "e"). Clearly were it PG Clark it should be Lt not 2Lt and if its F Clarke the account is misspelt as its with no "e" (an easy mistake) but he too is missing from the nominal roll??? Perhaps PG Clark is not on the 12Bat History roll as he is RE attached ? Or perhaps he is another battalion all together ?? Any thoughts ?

 

On 30/06/2013 at 12:43, delta said:

J P Clarke is John Peard Clarke formerly of C Coy HSMGC and commander of C18 on 15 Sep 1916.

Presumably you are looking for Peter Gordon Clark - 51 Highland Division RE later attached Tank Corps

 

On 30/06/2013 at 20:08, ghchurcher said:

Hi Stephen, yes JP would be nice but I am looking at Peter Gordon Clark !!

 

Cold thread, and I have not read it in detail, but I have just found papers relating to Lt. Peter Gordon CLARK, Tank Corps in the Officer's File of Lt Percy George Clark, KRRC!

 

These records also seem to have been muddled with a Lt PG Clark of the Norfolk Regt.

 

I'll post reduced versions of the pages I've found so far below.  If you need the full size originals, then drop me a PM.

 

Happy to help out the tankies who've helped me so much in the past!

Cheers,

Mark

 

58e81fa5775d4_DSCN0423-Copy.jpg.b69932bee784f47e4b004bf747e84ffd.jpg

58e81fabe2564_DSCN0424-Copy.jpg.7efb4e84086e6263a3ee54d32ddc791b.jpg

58e81fb785e1b_DSCN0425-Copy.jpg.0d30cd7c7a27b965b2d9dd61135e5602.jpg

58e81fbf9c815_DSCN0426-Copy.jpg.cdeba0d97ffb0e0a1c0fa6eeb0ad5033.jpg

58e81fcc4d917_DSCN0431-Copy.jpg.efb73eb6800aa3343d8d9940e6f67b43.jpg

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Thanks for sharing - the dates of the actions with D Bn are most interesting as there are a couple of oddities - Beaumont Hamel on 13 Nov and Arras on 22 May.

He is not mentioned as being at HB in the War Diary but, if he was at Vimy on 9 April, he would have been with No 12 Coy and is a new name,

There was no one in action on 22 May near Arras; D Battalion was at Wailly at the time, and I can find nothing about D Bn being in action on 1 Aug although the Workshops Company could have been forward  

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Thanks are principally due to Andy :ph34r: who kindly photographed all of KRRC Percy G Clark's officer's file at Kew last week!  Nearly a hundred pages, and which we're still trying to disentangle.

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That's one heck of a task - impressed!

 

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It looks like he may not have served attached to Tanks (7th Battalion) until 7th October 1918 having served with "400th High Field Coy RE Nov 1916 till Nov 1917 France" ............if I'm reading that right. (His MIC confirming BEF 09/11/1916). Might be another page to find confirming his transfer to Tanks date, that would resolve it !! LG 12/03/1918 suggests seconded 07/12/1917.

 

The RE were attached to Tanks early on, so need to see what the 400th were. I have an early MM RE with MGC HB citation. 

Edited by ghchurcher
Wrong entry
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OK I think this is my resume for Peter Gordon Clark.

Many thanks for the missing link, its good to bottom him out.

 

Lieutenant PG Clark

Royal Field Artillery

Army Service Corps

Royal Engineers (400th Field Company)

Tank Corps (Att 7th Battalion)

 

Peter Gordon Clark (sometimes Gordon-Clark)

Born 7th March 1893 (Glasgow)

NB/ Father LG 26th April 1910 – The Reverend Peter Gordon Clark to be Fourth Class Chaplain to the Territorial Force, ranking as Captain. Dated 1st July 1909.

Perth Academy, Royal Technical College, Glasgow. Apprentice Engineer (Mechanical)

Enlisted 14th September 1914 as No1333 Gunner Peter Gordon-Clark 1st City of Glasgow Battery 3rd Lowland Brigade RFA.

Application for Commission from 2/1st (HQ) Coy. Highland Divisional Train, ASC T.F. 13/03/1915

He was commissioned on 6th May 1915 into the 64th Divisional Train Army Service Corps.

LG 4th November 1915 ROYAL ENGINEERS (Highland Divisional Engineers)“Peter Gordon Clark from Highland Divisional Train, Army Service Corps, to be 2nd Lieutenant, Royal Engineers, 23rd October 1915.”

LG 10th January 1918 ROYAL ENGINEERS“2nd Lieut PG Clark to be Lieut with seniority next below Lt R Edwards. 1st July 1917.”

War Diary Notes for Lt PG Clark in 400th (1st Highland) Field Company RE, 51st Highland Division.

BEF France 9th November 1916

2nd December 1916 Reported for duty 400th F.Coy RE

22nd December 1916 Unable to work

26th December 1916 Reported fit for work

2nd February 1917 to Maroeuil

7th March 1917 New billets

8th April 1917 to High St

28th April 1917 Scarpe to Section 1

18th May 1917 10 Days Special Leave

8th July 1917 Takes over Transport Lines

20th July 1917 To trenches working party

23rd/24th 1917 Sick from gas attack

31st July 1917 to Boar Lane

20th August 1917 CO 1&2 Sections

2nd November 1917 Reconnoitre Havrincourt Wood East

27th November 1917 Proceeded to England for duty with Tank Corps.

 

Royal Engineers War Record (From Officers Service Records)

Battle of Beaumont Hamel 13th November 1916

Battle of Vimy Ridge 9th April 1917

Battle of Arras 22nd May 1917

Battle of 3rd Ypres 1st July 1917

Battle of Cambrai 20th November 1917

 

LG 13th February 1918 TANK CORPS“The undermentioned 2nd Lts to be 2nd Lts “PG Clark (RE TF) 7th December 1917, with seniority 17th April 1915”

LG 12th March 1918 ROYAL ENGINEERS“2nd Lieut (Now Lieut) PG Clark is seconded (sic to Tank Corps) 7th December 1917”.

BEF France 11th September 1918

Joined 7th Battalion Tank Corps in the Field 7th October 1918

After Second Cambrai the enemy were retreating faster than the army could advance. The Battalion went forward in two echelons, one going as far as Ramillies and the other following behind it to Tilloy, but the tanks did not get in touch with the enemy. On the 12th October the Battalion was withdrawn into GHQ Reserve and the tanks returned to Erin with the Battalion going to Blingel Camp. The Armistice arrived on the 11th November so the Battalion did not see action again. As is quite common with many of the 1918 commissioned and seconded Tank Officers, a great number of them never actually saw any action with the Tanks !

Clark Returned to UK 3rd April 1919

LG 13th May 1920 ROYAL ENGINEERS“Lieut PG Clark, Highland Divisional Engineers is restored to the establishment on ceasing to be employed with the Tank Corps on 14th May 1920.”

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Brilliant - well done Geoffrey

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