British issue waterbottle patterns

[o j kirby]

Hello,

Can anyone advise me on how to tell a WW1 British issue water bottle from post war examples?

Many thanks,

Owain.

[robins2]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=175378&hl=

try this thread

regards

Bob R.

[dickiek]

Have a feel at the bottom of the bottle, I believe there should not be a seam around the bottom edge but a flush / flat bottom to it.

Post war examples have a seam on the bottom

Dickie

[Andrew Upton]

Have a feel at the bottom of the bottle, I believe there should not be a seam around the bottom edge but a flush / flat bottom to it.

Post war examples have a seam on the bottom

A collectors myth Dickie - have a look at the following thread, post 8 in particular:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=142164&st=0&p=1357473&hl=waterbottles&fromsearch=1entry1357473

[dickiek]

A collectors myth Dickie - have a look at the following thread, post 8 in particular:

http://1914-1918.inv...1

Andrew

No not myths.

If you visit the 'In Flanders Fields museum' in Ypres, they have an original blue water bottle with a flat bottom that was found when digging out Yorkshire Trench. I had a good look at it on Friday when taking a school out to Ypres.

The next time I'm out there, I'll take a photo of it and post it here........

Also, in the 'room of rust' at Sanctuary Wood, they have many blue bottles with a flat bottom, they also don't have the small loop near the neck to take the cork string.

Dickie

[Andrew Upton]

No not myths.

If you visit the 'In Flanders Fields museum' in Ypres, they have an original blue water bottle with a flat bottom that was found when digging out Yorkshire Trench. I had a good look at it on Friday when taking a school out to Ypres.

The next time I'm out there, I'll take a photo of it and post it here........

Also, in the 'room of rust' at Sanctuary Wood, they have many blue bottles with a flat bottom, they also don't have the small loop near the neck to take the cork string.

Dickie, you needed to read the thread fully. I've no doubt the one you saw is right, but ones with seams on the bottoms are also right - I've quoted Chris P's work below, but essentially the only key guarantee a blue enamel one is post-war is if they have the eyelet for the string, and that dates them post-WW2:

"Firstly, the bottle and cover you have cannabalised is a perfectly good WW1 one. Your bottle, in the left of your pics, is typically earlier than the one on the right. The misconception that the lipped bottom is post WW1 is totally incorrect - it is in fact the earliest form.

Some history: The blue enamelled Mark V1 was approved in 1903. The earliest and original specifications called for a lipped bottom, and a pressed top, as in the left hand bottle. This followed on from the mark V, basically the same but with a fluted neck, again specified with a lipped bottom, and a pressed top.

During WW1 other contractors were brought online to cope with demand. Noted manufacturing concessions, for smaller companies that did not have pressing capabilities included lipped tops and bottoms, flat bottoms, etc. In a nutshell, The right hand bottle is a wartime manufacturing variant, the left is original spec.

...

The mark V11 was intoduced in 1939, differing from the mark V1 in being made of green enamellled steel, with a welded eyelet to retain the string.

The RAF used the same bottles as all the above until post WW2. Between the wars, the bag carrier for the RAF 25 pat web equipment was intoduced to hide the khaki covers. They used the khaki as 08 Pat was still in use by them, and the one bottle served for both sets of equipment this way. Likewise, the blue 37 pat RAF web still used the bag carrier. It was not until POST WW2 that the Mark V11 was made in blue enamel with the blue cover for RAF use. - I.E. any blue bottle with an eyelet is POST WW2."

[dave.ib_walker@ntlworld.co]

Yes, that was all news to me! The attached link tells the rest of the story, but the fact that the felt cover had a 1916 date and maker mark made me regret removing it - although the irony is that I would never have known about the stamp if I hadn't! Shows the value of the Forum in circulating detailed info on just about anything.

Cheers,

Dave

[dickiek]

Dickie, you needed to read the thread fully. I've no doubt the one you saw is right, but ones with seams on the bottoms are also right - I've quoted Chris P's work below, but essentially the only key guarantee a blue enamel one is post-war is if they have the eyelet for the string, and that dates them post-WW2:

"Firstly, the bottle and cover you have cannabalised is a perfectly good WW1 one. Your bottle, in the left of your pics, is typically earlier than the one on the right. The misconception that the lipped bottom is post WW1 is totally incorrect - it is in fact the earliest form.

Some history: The blue enamelled Mark V1 was approved in 1903. The earliest and original specifications called for a lipped bottom, and a pressed top, as in the left hand bottle. This followed on from the mark V, basically the same but with a fluted neck, again specified with a lipped bottom, and a pressed top.

During WW1 other contractors were brought online to cope with demand. Noted manufacturing concessions, for smaller companies that did not have pressing capabilities included lipped tops and bottoms, flat bottoms, etc. In a nutshell, The right hand bottle is a wartime manufacturing variant, the left is original spec.

...

The mark V11 was intoduced in 1939, differing from the mark V1 in being made of green enamellled steel, with a welded eyelet to retain the string.

The RAF used the same bottles as all the above until post WW2. Between the wars, the bag carrier for the RAF 25 pat web equipment was intoduced to hide the khaki covers. They used the khaki as 08 Pat was still in use by them, and the one bottle served for both sets of equipment this way. Likewise, the blue 37 pat RAF web still used the bag carrier. It was not until POST WW2 that the Mark V11 was made in blue enamel with the blue cover for RAF use. - I.E. any blue bottle with an eyelet is POST WW2."

Andrew

Thanks for that young man, I'll make sure I read it right the way through next time.

Dickie