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Remembered Today:

N&M Press Trench Map software and DVD


Tom Lang

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I have many map programs, including N&MP's offering.

I have never had it save to a .jpg file whatever version of Windows I have used it with. To me, it's no big deal and certainly not what I would call a 'rigmorole'. A couple of extra clicks of the mouse and it's done - in far less time than it takes to complain about it.

Nothing is perfect and life is too short to get upset about the little things, in my view. The maps are very useful and I'd certainly not want to be without them just because a small detail (with a very easy workaround) doesn't function as I might have expected.

Just my opinion.

Hello Ken,

Thanks for your comments.

I therefore challenge you to save a map as a .jpg file directly by using the product and post your experiences.

Here's a link to the N&MP page which describes their product.

Can you please tell me where it says anything about what you've said?

http://www.naval-mil...r-each-map.html

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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I therefore challenge you to save a map as a .jpg file directly by using the product and post your experiences.

As I said in my post - I can't save it as a .jpeg by clicking on 'save' and selecting the .jpg option. But that isn't exclusive to Windows 7 in my experience. Neither is it a problem to me as I can easily save it as a .jpg using any number of short, easy processes.

Here's a link to the N&MP page which describes their product.

Can you please tell me where it says anything about what you've said?

http://www.naval-mil...r-each-map.html

Sorry, Tom. I was describing my experiences in relation to the problem you described, not attempting to offer an explanation of N&MP's marketing of the product.

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Thanks Ken,

The 'bumph' states that it can save a .jpg and so does the 'Help' instructions.

This is another bug, and if it's been going on for a while in earlier versions, why won't they fix it? Maybe because nobody has told them.

But they now know through my emails and telephone call.

But accusing a customer of being a thief is not a bug - it's stupidity, and nothing will fix that.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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  • 6 months later...

Dear All

Thanks for the hints and tips on how to save maps as Bmp.

In addition to wanting the 'steal' the maps :whistle: I have a bigger problem in that I use MAC so was having to view maps on a small PC labtop and wanted to view on a bigger screen.

BMPs work fine for me :thumbsup: although would have preferred .tiffs but there you go.........

cheersMike

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It is compatible with Windows 7 and 8. Really just to confirm what ulsterlad said earlier...

I am running it with Windows 8. I used to run it on Vista and yes, it disables the snipping tool on all of these operating systems but if select it, convert it and then open it in another image editing software that can handle those file sizes then all is good. I have always done it that way and you can either select the full map in ER viewer or portions of the map. I find the quality when doing this is far better than the snipping tool and if I need to reduce the file size then I can do that using the image editing software. However, I do notice that now I have Windows 8 the Microsoft image editing software can handle the bigger file sizes whereas before, I used Media Impression or Corel to edit the images.

Hope this helps

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is compatible with Windows 7 and 8. Really just to confirm what ulsterlad said earlier...

I am running it with Windows 8. I used to run it on Vista and yes, it disables the snipping tool on all of these operating systems but if select it, convert it and then open it in another image editing software that can handle those file sizes then all is good. I have always done it that way and you can either select the full map in ER viewer or portions of the map. I find the quality when doing this is far better than the snipping tool and if I need to reduce the file size then I can do that using the image editing software. However, I do notice that now I have Windows 8 the Microsoft image editing software can handle the bigger file sizes whereas before, I used Media Impression or Corel to edit the images.

Hope this helps

Hello Seaforths,

In post #39 I gave the link to Microsoft's website to check for 'compatibility'.

Here's what I said:

"I've also found that Microsoft has NOT certified the N & M Press DVD as being compatible with W7 - yet N & M Press claims on their website that it is.

Search for it at:

http://www.microsoft...us/default.aspx

So if Microsoft say it isn't compatible - then it isn't.

Companies are supposed to submit their products to Microsoft for testing and certification, before claiming to be compatible with one of Microsoft's. Even hardware has to get certification to claim 'compatibility'."

From what I can see, N&MP products are still not listed as compatible with W7 or W8.

Just because you can run it, does not make it compatible. There are deeper requirements before Microsoft will certify it as 'compatible'.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Hello Seaforths,

In post #39 I gave the link to Microsoft's website to check for 'compatibility'.

Here's what I said:

"I've also found that Microsoft has NOT certified the N & M Press DVD as being compatible with W7 - yet N & M Press claims on their website that it is.

Search for it at:

http://www.microsoft...us/default.aspx

So if Microsoft say it isn't compatible - then it isn't.

Companies are supposed to submit their products to Microsoft for testing and certification, before claiming to be compatible with one of Microsoft's. Even hardware has to get certification to claim 'compatibility'."

From what I can see, N&MP products are still not listed as compatible with W7 or W8.

Just because you can run it, does not make it compatible. There are deeper requirements before Microsoft will certify it as 'compatible'.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

Thanks for your post Tom,

Ah well - we will have to agree to disagree. If something is no longer supported or non-compatible, then as far as I'm concerned in the case of the former it may not work for much longer (or at all) in the case of the latter it just doesn't work at all. And if Bill Gate's lot told me to stick my head in the oven because it was compatible - I'm not sure I would believe 'em. It worked on Vista and I have noticed no change in Windows 7 or 8 in the way it runs other than one improvement, in that the inherent Windows image software can now seemingly handle the bigger file sizes and this is also better for the WFA mapping discs as you can work with them too.

Windows MS Office produce download patches because upgrades to your software mean that someone with older software cannot open it because it is not compatible - doesn't work. Therefore, now you get an option to save something that is for example 97-2003 compatible (so it will work on that version too). Microsoft is often referred to as backward compatible (it works) but not forward compatible (it doesn't work) I haven't downloaded any additional patches or fixes for the mapping software - it works - therefore compatible. Seems to me to be a Windows play on words - their own words at that.

Cheers

Marjorie

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Thanks for your post Tom,

Ah well - we will have to agree to disagree. If something is no longer supported or non-compatible, then as far as I'm concerned in the case of the former it may not work for much longer (or at all) in the case of the latter it just doesn't work at all. And if Bill Gate's lot told me to stick my head in the oven because it was compatible - I'm not sure I would believe 'em. It worked on Vista and I have noticed no change in Windows 7 or 8 in the way it runs other than one improvement, in that the inherent Windows image software can now seemingly handle the bigger file sizes and this is also better for the WFA mapping discs as you can work with them too.

Windows MS Office produce download patches because upgrades to your software mean that someone with older software cannot open it because it is not compatible - doesn't work. Therefore, now you get an option to save something that is for example 97-2003 compatible (so it will work on that version too). Microsoft is often referred to as backward compatible (it works) but not forward compatible (it doesn't work) I haven't downloaded any additional patches or fixes for the mapping software - it works - therefore compatible. Seems to me to be a Windows play on words - their own words at that.

Cheers

Marjorie

Hello Marjorie,

If I go swimming in an olympic pool, that doesn't make me an olympic swimmer.

I'm no friend of Mickey$oft, but being 'compatible' is not of their making. All vendors do this - try Oracle, IBM, HP, etc.

What they are 'certifying' is that they have received a product in their labs, and have tested it to be compatible with the internal mechanisms in their product(s).

Hardware manufacturers do the same.

Once on their certified list, vendors can claim 'compatibility' and buyers (like me) can see that the product has been tested in the Micro$h*t labs.

Maybe you've not tried the link I provided re compatibility.

I've also explained throughout this thread that the N&M product cannot save a .jpg file and disables the W7 Snipping Tool.

The website and Help file claim to be able to save a .jpg file.

Maybe you've not noticed these 'anomalies'.

Maybe your Snipping Tool isn't working. You'll find it under Windows Accessories.

Try saving a .jpg file and see what results you get.

If your Snipping Tool isn't working, maybe it's because you haven't noticed that it has been disabled by your first use of the N&M software, so you'll have to reboot.

Please try these things. They are not a play on words.

I am attempting to show members of the forum that there are real problems with the N&M product.

If you are happy, great. But I was accused of attempted theft and that is not so great.

Is it too much to ask you to read the whole thread?

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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My N & MP OH Disk no longer works on my Vista machine. This is due to windows updates. N & MP's have issued patches, but as far as I know, this involves un-doing at least 4 Windows updates. I am not keen to do this, as it may compromise my online security?

Fortunately I have an extra machine, that I do not use for online work, and I can run the disk on this.

Mike

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My N & MP OH Disk no longer works on my Vista machine. This is due to windows updates. N & MP's have issued patches, but as far as I know, this involves un-doing at least 4 Windows updates. I am not keen to do this, as it may compromise my online security?

Fortunately I have an extra machine, that I do not use for online work, and I can run the disk on this.

Mike

Hello Mike,

You have my greatest sympathy for getting involved with Vista.

Microsoft stopped supporting Vista as of Apr 10, 2012, so any updates thereafter can only be for other Mickey$oft products on your machine. Although you can pay for 'extended support' until Apr 11, 2017.

http://windows.micro...ducts/lifecycle

As for 'security', there is no such thing on a Micro$h*t operating system.

"Windows" is a visual representation of the DOS (Disc Operating System).

MS-DOS was Mickey$oft's version of a DOS which was chosen by IBM to ship with each of their PCs.

IBM gave away PCs as 'executive toys' and they were only capable of playing ping-pong.

There were other DOSs to choose from - DR-DOS, Digital DOS, IBM-DOS (which eventually became OS/2), etc.

But they chose MS-DOS (even in the face of having one of their own) and paid Mr Gates and his cronies a fee for every PC shipment - hence Mickey$oft got rich. IBM also forgot to obtain copyright ownership in the contract with Mr Gates, and have regretted that simple fact ever since.

Think back to the days when there was only one user, working on one keyboard, attached to one machine, doing one thing at a time.

That was the 'security' - one user; one keyboard; one PC.

The original IBM PC was booted from a 5 1/4" floppy (disc A).

The original IBM PC would melt the printed circuit boards (PCBs) internally, so IBM introduced the IBM-PC2.

They patented the name "PC". They tried to patent the words "Personal Computer" but were refused. So they patented the name "IBM-PC".

Have you ever heard of the term "IBM-PC compatible"?

That's when all hardware and software vendors would claim to be "IBM-PC compatible".

When the dual-floppy machines arrived, MS had to add to their list of 'drives' and magically named it 'B'.

With the advent of the hard drive, it was somehow named 'C'. Complicated stuff here.

After the 3 1/2" 'hard' floppies came and went, the 'A' and 'B' drive names are still in existence.

Each of those hardware developments required a change to the OS software.

And so the history continues, but disc 'A' and 'B' still exist in the OS to this day. It would cost money for Mr Gates and his cronies to fix this.

As for 'security', there was no need, so no such element of the OS was built - and still hasn't today. Just think of all the so-called 'viruses' which are able to exploit 'holes' in the MS OS.

And 'viruses' could 'travel' on floppy discs and migrate from machine to machine.

So I suggest that any "patches" issued from N&M are due to other anomalies/bugs/errors in their software.

N&M should be able to provide a description for each patch, instructions on installing the patch, and why it is required.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Tom, I am quite content with Vista, but I think the version I have is superior to the original. I think it's probably time for a change, but want to give Win7 a miss. will keep Vista till the bitter end.

Mike

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In response to your last Tom, I did my homework before I bought it and contacted Linesman personnel as well as N & M. I also had some help from some kindly Forum members before I decided to make my choice - see here:

http://1914-1918.inv...693&hl=linesman

I regularly use my snipping tool - so no, in answer to your input - it works fine and is not disabled on my machines. However, it has never worked using the CD and after realising the first time that I would have to reboot the PC for the snipping too to work again - I realised it was pointless trying it - so stopped.

I don't tend to pay too much attention to what the producers (large or small) say about their products for software or hardware - they generally lie like a Hull taxi meter anyway to get your money. I find it is better to find out how it works from someone that has it already - simples!

Folks using vocabulary interchangeably and folks putting too much store in that. Maybe you should just return the product and ask for a refund if you are so unhappy with it and the support you are getting. I read the earlier posts and you just seem such an unhappy bunny - send it back, move on, whatever, life's too short.

I am only aware of 3 people in the entire world that are/were happy with Vista and I am one of them I can now add another - Mike - saw your post too. Although I'm still using my Vista machine too, I haven't tried running the cd in my Vista for some time now but I will pop down and give it a whirl and let you know if it is still working. I'm using mine on Windows 8 as I said in an earlier post it runs the same way as it did in Vista. I haven't bothered trying with the snipping tool on Windows 8. If it didn't work with Vista, it's unlikely to work with anything that came afterwards. The quality using it is rubbish anyway, I only tend to use it as a quick way to reduce the file size on an image. If I want high quality maps at a decent resolution, I don't find it such a hardship to convert the files.

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Mike - I'm running Vista Home Premium, 32 bit and on Service Pack 2. The mapping cd is working fine. Windows updates installed the night before last so that is up to date. However, I do recall an incident going back a while when the cd wouldn't play the game. I took it out, re-booted and tried again immediately and it worked.

As for security updates on Vista:

'Back in February, Microsoft formally changed its published support policy for Windows Vista and Windows 7 to match with the way it worked in practice. All consumer and business editions qualify for no-charge, security-related updates throughout the extended support phase, which ends in five years, on April 11, 2017. '

The full article can be read here: http://www.zdnet.com...n-not-much/4758

Which purports that April next year Microsoft will cease such for XP

Tom - half of our PCs in work still have a physical 'A' Drive. Possibly require carbon dating but they are still running and have recently been upgraded to Windows 7 OS!

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In response to your last Tom, I did my homework before I bought it and contacted Linesman personnel as well as N & M. I also had some help from some kindly Forum members before I decided to make my choice - see here:

http://1914-1918.inv...693&hl=linesman

I regularly use my snipping tool - so no, in answer to your input - it works fine and is not disabled on my machines. However, it has never worked using the CD and after realising the first time that I would have to reboot the PC for the snipping too to work again - I realised it was pointless trying it - so stopped.

I don't tend to pay too much attention to what the producers (large or small) say about their products for software or hardware - they generally lie like a Hull taxi meter anyway to get your money. I find it is better to find out how it works from someone that has it already - simples!

Folks using vocabulary interchangeably and folks putting too much store in that. Maybe you should just return the product and ask for a refund if you are so unhappy with it and the support you are getting. I read the earlier posts and you just seem such an unhappy bunny - send it back, move on, whatever, life's too short.

I am only aware of 3 people in the entire world that are/were happy with Vista and I am one of them I can now add another - Mike - saw your post too. Although I'm still using my Vista machine too, I haven't tried running the cd in my Vista for some time now but I will pop down and give it a whirl and let you know if it is still working. I'm using mine on Windows 8 as I said in an earlier post it runs the same way as it did in Vista. I haven't bothered trying with the snipping tool on Windows 8. If it didn't work with Vista, it's unlikely to work with anything that came afterwards. The quality using it is rubbish anyway, I only tend to use it as a quick way to reduce the file size on an image. If I want high quality maps at a decent resolution, I don't find it such a hardship to convert the files.

Hello Marjorie,

From what you write, it looks like you cannot get the Windows Snipping Tool to work while using the N&M product.

Now try to save a file as a .jpg file-type and post your results.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Tom - half of our PCs in work still have a physical 'A' Drive. Possibly require carbon dating but they are still running and have recently been upgraded to Windows 7 OS!

Marjorie,

The Basic Input Output System (BIOS) controller chip will also allow you to boot from 'A', but I don't think you'll get all of W7 on a floppy... lol

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Maybe you should just return the product and ask for a refund if you are so unhappy with it and the support you are getting.

Marjorie,

When I telephoned N&M they refused to refund my money.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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I don't tend to pay too much attention to what the producers (large or small) say about their products for software or hardware - they generally lie like a Hull taxi meter anyway to get your money.

As for security updates on Vista:

'Back in February, Microsoft formally changed its published support policy for Windows Vista and Windows 7 to match with the way it worked in practice. All consumer and business editions qualify for no-charge, security-related updates throughout the extended support phase, which ends in five years, on April 11, 2017. '

Which purports that April next year Microsoft will cease such for XP

Marjorie,

Which is it?

Is Microsoft lying "like a Hull taxi meter", or are you paying "too much attention" while they support their product(s)?

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Marjorie,

When I telephoned N&M they refused to refund my money.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

Ah yes, that's the famous N&M customer service.

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Noooo ! hamsters are falling off wheels as it is just trying to cope with W7 anything else tends to push them over the edge very quickly. Unfortunately funds are lacking for them to replace them all at once and that's no bad thing if they are staggered replacements.

I don't tend to believe many claims made would probably have been a better way to word what I said and as many companies will claim affiliation to regulatory bodies or claim to comply with certain standards and copy their logos. They are probably aware that the public are very unlikely to check with the particular institute to see if they are bona fide and registered with them. They tend to vanish very quickly if challenged when they are found out.

Regarding software via work I usually ask for a trial, evaluation copy etc. to play with before believing what they have written up on the product. If I am purchasing for myself I tend to research for independent reviews which is why I asked questions on the Forum. Again, this is because of people marketing their product with overstated or untrue claims. Many of the sales people have no involvement with the software development or the understanding of the standards involved - they are exactly sales persons very often with limited knowledge of their own products. Reading my own posts back at that time it would seem that they weren't claiming printing from JPG they were claiming printing from PDF.

I knew what I wanted the Mapping CDs for and communication with Linesman and N & M was cordial and courteous. It was pointed out the reasoning behind protecting the images as far as possible. I didn't take it as an accusatory stance towards me personally. However, I took the time to find out what I was buying into and that a workaround was possible and I bought the product prepared to accept it on those terms. Ultimately I want to be able to print large maps that will fold in/out of a family book based on our ancestors that served - so I can show their story as well as tell it. I use it alongside the WFA CDs as the N & M search is better and quicker so I will use it to see the bigger picture of what I am looking for with the WFA ones. Your experience seems to have been different in dealing with them. I have only dealt with them twice in the past in person and have found them to be very helpful.

I came across the information on Vista a while back and it was literally that, I stumbled across it in work while I was looking for information on something else. They don't publicise their information widely enough when they have done U-turns. I actually looked for the information last night to put up here for Mike - I found it via a different source. I have found on many occasions regarding their OS they will say one thing one moment and change their mind the next, except the change of mind is less widely publicised. Perhaps so they are not seen to be losing face.

You accuse me of not reading posts Tom! Perhaps you would like to pop down to the glass house with your bucket of stones? See you there in a while. I will donate any I have left over for you to fling at N & M. :D

Comments about swimming pools of any size are totally wasted on me - I would rather set fire to my own backside than share a large communal bath with people I don't even know - yuck disgusting! :o I understand the experience is pleasurable for some - and that's good (for them). I would love to pull up a sandbag and swing the lantern on Dos and drives but I can honestly say, I would send myself to sleep in seconds. If another party were involved I fear slumber would be even quicker. I find the subject terribly boring. I like to close the hangar doors and when I get home leave it alone (if I'm allowed). I might have subscribed to the odd T-shirt over the years but never the full on anorak.

Regarding your challenge in your post #89 I refer you to my post #87 (glass house again! :rolleyes: ) If you read the link I posted, you will have noticed that it was pointed out to me that it has to be converted to bmp & pdf, therefore the workaround was to convert it - I knew that before I bought it (see post #10 on the link)The snipping tool is very handy and I use it a lot but not for my maps or other images if I want the quality to be spot on. I tried it once out of curiosity with the cd (post #87) then didn't bother again.

Have you then considered Advertising Standards or Trading Standards? Perhaps if N & M had to give one of those organisations a good listening to, they might be a bit more amenable.

I guess the bottom line is that I was happy with what I got because I knew what to expect - actually very happy as an early birthday present that was on special offer at a greatly reduced price. You are not happy and therefore want a refund which hasn't been forthcoming - understandable.

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You are not happy and therefore want a refund which hasn't been forthcoming - understandable.

Marjorie,

What were your results when you tried to save a map as a .jpg. file-type?

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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It seems that you haven't read the link to my previous posts and in particular post #10 on that thread. You quite obviously haven't read my last post #94 on this thread either. You have also ignored posts on this thread with similar information. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question (again)

Actually Tom, I might have just been skim reading, but nowhere on the N & M information can I find the bit that makes mention of jpgs!

I can find this:

easy to use interface for searching, manipulating and printing the maps...

I can also find this:

All maps fully printable

This:

29/09/08 - Problem Printing Information Pages

Some customers have experienced a problem printing the information pages from the DVD-ROM using the printer icon at the bottom of each information page. To fix this problem you will need Adobe Reader installed on your computer as the pages are printed from a PDF file. The software opens the information pages as a PDF in order for you to print them.

Adobe Reader is FREE and you can download and install Adobe Reader here.

Perhaps when you visit the glass house with your stones can I suggest you take your mop and bucket for the tears and spilt milk?

Perhaps you can use your now re-enabled and handy snipping tool and put the part on that states the information about the jpg?

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Marjorie,

This is a simple matter of:

1) The W7 Snipping Tool is disabled, or it isn't.

2) You can save a map as a .jpg file-type, or you can't.

You already agreed to disagree, so there is no point in continuing to defend your position or opinion.

My position and opinion are different, and based on my actual experience with the N&M product.

So far you've established that the Snipping Tool gets disabled.

Now try to open a map (any map) and save it, selecting the file-type .jpg, and post your experiences.

That's not a complicated thing to do.

You can also open the N&M Help, and search for 'saving a file'.

You'll find all the references to .jpg file-types there.

The fact that you can choose a .jpg type when saving a map should also, by default, suffice.

Please post your experiences of attempting to save a map as a .jpg file, that's all I'm asking of you.

There's no need to discuss the matter further - you either can save a .jpg, or you can't.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

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Tom

We have already established that you cannot save a file directly as a jpeg but all you have to do is save it first as a bmp and then resave it as a jpeg and Marjorie has acknowledged this in her various posts and links. it is not difficult to do. Life is short, Move on.

Roger

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Thank you Roger - I wholeheartedly agree.

Tom - as you still don't appear to have use of your snipping tool, I have used mine. From stating that they support jpg, I can only assume that you mean this:

post-70679-0-41263800-1371984986_thumb.p

In which case they are in fact correct, they do support jpg and the snipping tool is not disabled as you can see here:

post-70679-0-09510600-1371985259_thumb.p

As you can see, I have now used the snipping tool twice. Please read on in the post that follows

TBC...

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Now that we have established that they open a jpg as they claim they can do (see previous - as I have used a jpg), lets take a look at something else. The known limitations:

post-70679-0-01625300-1371985622_thumb.p

Let us also consider that ER is a standalone programme that has been utilised by N & M for use with their product and as such I have demonstrated that using it in isolation it will do what it claims to do. It is not exclusive to N & M. The WFA with their discs offer it too. I did not run the version that came with WFA as the N & M state that their product will only work with the version from their cd. Taking this information into account, I would not want to nor would I recommend downloading any add-ons from the ER site as this too might compromise the running of the N & M product

I am sure someone with your level of IT skills can now work out who/what is causing the problem. Here endeth the reading.

Good luck - should you decide to pursue it further

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