Vladimir De-Tcherniadieff

[Bradford WW1 Group]

Vladimir has a Medal Card and appears in Tempest's list of casualties (KiA 11.10.18) in the official history of the 6th Btn West Yorkshire Regiment.

Tcherniadieff enlisted in London and is buried in Iwuy Communal Cemetery with 42 other WYR killed the same day (not all are 6th Btn). Among these there are six with Service numbers beginning 54 . . . They are:

54177 Rolfe; 54191 Shirley; 54200 Templemore; 54202 De Tcherdianieff; 54204 Temple; 54221 Mears.

Has anyone information about the service numbers beginning 54 . . . All these men appear to come from east London.

Another casualty from the same regiment, David Friedlander (20418), a Londoner of Russian extraction, was killed on the same day and is buried in the same cemetery as the names listed above.

I have found only two Tcherniadieffs on Ancestry - one a marriage in London in 1911 and the other an immigrant arrival. Neither of these appears to link with Vladimir who was born in Russia (no date known).

Are there any Russian experts out there who might spot an alternative spelling to Tcherniadieff which leads to information about this exotic-sounding name?

Bradford was a world trading centre in wool and worsted manufacture in 1914 and our population was perhaps even more cosmopolitan than it is today. There were Irish, Scots, German, Italian and French volunteering in local regiments so two Russians would not feel out of place!

Thanks in anticipation,

Tricia

[Sandie Hayes]

On his medal index card Vladimir is written as Weadimir. Will this spelling help you find anything more on him?

There is a note on his card about him dying intestate and another requesting permission to dispose of his medals It's possible he had no next of kin/family.

Another East Londoner, Albert Spinks, was killed on the 11th with the 6th Battalion. He was Private 204189. It will be interesting to see if anyone can answer your question on numbering and explain the link between East London and West Yorkshire.

Sandie

[centurion]

From my time in the 60's doing the MBA at Bradford I originally had 'digs' with a family of Scots origin who had long been in the wool business. According to them there was once a lively trade with imperial Russia with Bradfordians living in St Petersberg and Russians living in Bradford.. In terms of Bradford society they were in the upper stratas. In the 1960s there were many Poles and Ukrainians in Bradford (but relatively few Asians). Bradford it seems has always been a place of immigration followed by social ascent (every new wave seems to come in at the bottom and push everybody else up a rung)..

[Sandie Hayes]

Tricia, is your question linked to this post from a couple of days ago?

 

[apwright]

Are there any Russian experts out there who might spot an alternative spelling to Tcherniadieff which leads to information about this exotic-sounding name?

Not an expert, but the surname in Russian is Чернядьев, which you can find transliterated any number of ways, depending on the language of the writer!

Ч = Ch, Tch, Tsch, Č etc.

е = e, je, ye, ie

р = r

н = n

я = ya, ja, ia

д = d

ь = ' or nothing

е = e, je, ye, ie

в = v, f, ff, w

Your spelling is a French transliteration. A German would spell it Tschernjadjew. In English nowadays something like Chernyadyev, though I think the French spellings were more usual in England back then. Educated Russians would know French and use the French form when writing their names in the Latin alphabet. Certainly all the names on WW1 Russian graves in CWGC care round here are spelt the French way, with -eff and -off, rather than -ev and -ov.

Adrian

[margaretdufay]

Could this be an alternative spelling

TCHERNIAEV ...

[Bradford WW1 Group]

Sandie: I had not seen the thread re

How interesting to see another enquirer - and from Yorkshire too! I will pursue this.

In terms of alternative spellings, there seem to be no leads back to the man I'm looking for. As his medals were returned perhaps there were no next of kin in England in 1920.

[BGS]

He was one of a batch of conscripts, Londoners, many born August and September 1899, This group of young men starts with 54177 Fred ROLFE and comprises 77 soldiers, to 54273 Reginald Harry SMITH. The numbers are consecutive in Medal Award Rolls Piece 0908. Not many Service Records survive for them so my conclusions are provisional. They were sent to Infantry Base Depot 'J', France 30.4.1918 from 51st (Graduated) Battalion Royal Sussex Regiment, posted to 1/6 West Yorks 2.5.1918, joined in the field next day. They seem to have been the first draft recorded by Tempest as replacements for the losses of 25.41918 at Wytschaete.