Steven Broomfield Posted 12 September , 2012 Share Posted 12 September , 2012 The fact they're not in the regimental history suggests to me that they won't be in the war diary either. I suspect they were attached somewhere else and the regiment never knew what happened. Merely supposition on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 12 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2012 Hi Rich. Must say, it's a great pleasure to hear from you and encouraging to learn of what your own research turned up, especially as you've tracked down a living fellow desendant as a result. What an amazing event indeed. I'm personally thoroughly enthralled with the prospects of what I might as yet uncover, maybe it will be similarly as exciting as your own discovery, here's hoping. And to have a diary of your own granfather's experiences, that's such a special thing. Dare say you must derive such great pleasure from it, and what a gem when it comes to researching not only him, but the 4th Hussars as a whole. I don't know if you checked out my other post under 'Units and Formations' marked as '4th Hussars', but it's a photo of my great uncle together with eight other soldiers of the 4th. Are any of them present on your grandfather's photo? Please do let me know if you do find anything in your grandfather's diaries that pertains to soldiers Wyatt, Dowling or Hose. Equally, anything relating to detachments being deployed in 1914 etc, that might apply to these men. Thank you so much for getting in touch, Rich. And I hope further research may prove fruitful in somehow possibly connecting our brave forebears. Warmest regards, Markus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 12 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2012 I do have a feeling you're right, Steven. For them to have been entirely omitted from all apparent records does seem to suggest just that. Sad, but it's the most likely scenario, without a doubt. I'm currently awaiting replies from the links you sent me, but I do feel you're right. Cheers for now, Markus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 12 September , 2012 Share Posted 12 September , 2012 Hi Markus Yes it has been quite amazing finding a reletive right here on the forum after all this time. There is an older post on here somewhere (if I could post the link to it I would) that has a great group shot of company C of the 4th Hussars at the Curragh in 1914 it also has the picture that I have of my granddad & a copy of his diary also a copy of his brother's that Hesmond who turned ot to be my second cousin has also put on. I agree with Steven also, but was hoping that they might me mentioned as transfered or missing at sometime before Nov 26th. I wont be able to check tonight (I'm at work right now) but will definately take a look tomorrow. I did see you pictures but forgot to mention them on my last post, they are a treasure to have along with his medals & plaque. Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hello again, Rich. Yes, those medals and plaque are very special to me, as are the photos. On the subject of photos, what you've written has just jogged my memory...! I seem to recall one of my cousins has a 'company' photo with my great uncle included amongst the troops. I'll chase it up and see if it's the same as yours (a long shot perhaps) but it might just be. It would certainly be of interest to me to at least know which troop he was part of, if only for a while. And I'd really like to see your photo, if possible? All the best for now. Markus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Not that much of long shot if its a full squadron photo as there are only 3 squadrons in a cavalry regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 On 13/09/2012 at 06:52, madraf said: Hi Markus There is an older post on here somewhere (if I could post the link to it I would) that has a great group shot of company C of the 4th Hussars Cheers Rich "C" Squadron - companies are infantry (and putting the letter second is American!!!). I remember the photo, though - we must try and find it. Aha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Superb stuff, gentlemen. Fantastic photos, I've just downloaded them and about to enlarge and check through the faces. Thank you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 "C" Squadron - companies are infantry (and putting the letter second is American!!!). I remember the photo, though - we must try and find it. oops been in North America to long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 I found a mention of all three men in the war diary, not much info but has them listed as missing, died in Germany. I'm wondering if they died in captivity as of the 45 men listed as missing there are four marked as died in Germany Wyatt, Hose, Dowling & Cpl Brown (but he is listed as dying Aug 29th 1914) & there are five listed as either pow or wounded pow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Fascinating When was this entry in the war diary? Any info on where they went missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.J.Caughey Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hello markus and everyone, dont want to hijack your post but have this chap i am researching for Belfast Church memorial, and might be nice for you to know, Pte 8793 Henry Bryans C Company 4th Hussars. CWGC has him died 11/9/1914, Medal card remarks has him KIA ?/9/1914, SWDGW has him 28/5/1915. have a newspaper photo and obit says Killed 13th Sept 1914 at the battle of Ainse reconnoitring the bridge at Conde. So many contradictions of death dates, would anyone know if there is any mention war diarys? etc. Any info or thoughts would be appreciated . Thanking you in advance. Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Fascinating When was this entry in the war diary? Any info on where they went missing? At the top of the page it says Apendix A Casualties of 4th Hussars to 20th September 1914 (casualtiy reports day - day to this date lost during retreat) so there are no definate dates mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hello markus and everyone, dont want to hijack your post but have this chap i am researching for Belfast Church memorial, and might be nice for you to know, Pte 8793 Henry Bryans C Company 4th Hussars. C Squadron Regimental History has him as killed ?/9/14; the bridge at Conde was certainly the scene of several casualties on 13th September, but no names mentioned: my guess is the newspaper is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hi Walter I took a look for any mention of Henry Bryans, but couldn't find anything definate, but on the diary page that spans from Sept 15th to the 25th it's very faint but I can almost make out his name & written beside it to me it looks like it says hospital. if you pm me you email address I can send you a copy of the page. Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hi Rich. Goodness, that's quite a revelation, wow! I'm quite overwhelmed. I certainly didn't expect such a result and sure didn't expect to learn of the posibilities of them being taken into Germany as wounded POW's/POW's, stunning. Thank you so much for your very dilligent research, I really do appreciate it so much. And as for your photo, the link to which Steven very kindly relayed, I think the figure third row from front, 11th from right might well be my great uncle. I've tried zooming in on the figure but due to 'blocky' pixelation it's hard to be sure. If possible, if it's not too much trouble I'd like to ask if you could take a look at the photos I posted under '4th Hussars' and see if you agree. Perhaps the resemblance might be more evident by examining your original picture of the company. Thank you so much. And Steven, once again my heartfelt thanks to you, too. By any chance, do you know which newspaper published the article? I'd very much like to examine it and perhaps aquire a copy/photocopy of the item. Once again, gentlemen. My deepest thanks and very warmest regards to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hello Walter. Very pleased you've joined in with this topic, it's thoroughly enthralling and I sincerely hope your enquiries prove to be as fruitlul as mine. Smashing crew of chaps, 10/10...! And God bless all those brave men who served with the 4th Hussars...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Yes, on the second post of this thread , I commented on Hose being commemorated on the Cologne Memorial but with his early date of death. So the German connection was acknowledged but the date is perhaps peculiar. The others are commemorated on the Menin Gate, So are we to infer that it is thought that they did not perish in German hands whilst Hose definitely did? The decision to put one of them on the Cologne Memorial must have been a deliberate and considered one. Cpl Brown does appear to have died in German hands but at Mons - they buried him in Mons (Bergen) Communal Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.J.Caughey Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 markus, and everyone, thank you for looking and replys. Steven i liked to think family would have some telegram or official notice of death of Henry so tend to believe notice in paper myself. Have a couple of newspaper snippets Belfast men 4th Hussars and 8th and 20th in my database so if anyone would like to look at them just PM. Once again thanks and goodluck with research markus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Interestingly, Cologne Memorial commemorates 25 servicemen of the United Kingdom who died in Germany and who have no known grave. Of these, 19 are known to have died as prisoners and their places of burial are not recorded. Looking at the dead commemorated at Cologne is interesting and includes 2 x SWBs died on the same day 7/6/15. This was a day when 1st SWBs were in action and lost a number of men. So it appears that the use of the Cologne Memorial included the names of men with no known graves but thought to have died in German hands - but not necessarily actually within Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hi Ian. By any chance, do you have any leads or links that might contain the names of those commemorated on or by the Cologne memorial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 14 September , 2012 Admin Share Posted 14 September , 2012 Hi Markus I'm not Ian but I have been enjoying this thread and am pleased to be able to contribute something. Details for Cologne Memorial can be found here Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madraf Posted 14 September , 2012 Share Posted 14 September , 2012 Markus The pictures of C Squadron (right Steven ha ha) were posted by someone who is no longer on the forum but I can see the resembelance to your great uncle on the man you pointed out, & I think Ian is probibly correct that not all of them were in German hands when they died. I'll keep a look out & if I find anything else out on Wyatt I'll add it to this post, same on Walter's man Bryans. Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 14 September , 2012 Share Posted 14 September , 2012 Thanks to Glen for the Cologne Memorial (C.M) link which will take you to the names. There is a logic I suppose in placing the names on the C.M but unfortunate for family members who might have wanted to visit. I would imagine that the detailed circumstances of the men's loss would have been considered and it would seem likely that there were more men in the 4th Hussars party than 3 - perhaps they were part of a troop. If this was the case those that made it back may have reported that they definitely saw Hose captured wounded and taken away but that the other 2 men were left dead on the battlefield. I wonder if the Germans may have reported on the detail of Hose's capture and death to the Red Cross? If so, the story may be in the Red Cross archive somewhere. There may also be some records on the C.M names at the C.W.G.C and an enquiry about Hose might produce some information on the little action in 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 September , 2012 Share Posted 14 September , 2012 All 3 men were showing on a casualty list of 8 Dec 1914 , in the Times of 4 Feb 1915. The list states 'Previously reported as missing,now reported as having dies as prisoners of war' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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