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Remembered Today:

WWI-Era Lee-Enfields Find A New Lease On Life


ph0ebus

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If purchased in the 1950s would guess they are No. 4s rather than the original SMLEs.

I share your thoughts, though

cheers Martin B

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Typical bad or uninformed reporting. The Rangers have been carrying WW II No. 4 Enfields for some years. They are highly effective weapons!

All the best

Gary

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The Canadian Rangers are issued Mainly Long Branch No4 Mk1*rifles. I shot alongside the canadian Rangers in 1990's to 2000 in the Canadian Skill at Arms meeting at Connaught Ranges Ottawa there were No SMLE's being used. They were using IVI 303 ammo made in the 80's. they were issued soft point stuff for the beasties. Poor reporting to say they are issued WW1 rifles. Attempts have been made to find a replacement rifle for the No4 but it keeps looking like if it ain't broke dont fix it.

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I bet this poor hiker wished that he had a SMLE with him at the time ...

Hiker killed by Grizzly Bear in Alaska

We too also still utilise the venerable SMLE rifle for dispatching dangerous "beasties" that reside in our neck of the woods ...

Loaded up with soft-point ammunition for expansion there is not much else you're going to need for short-range stopping power.

A well maintained weapon with all its requisite parts intact will still be as lethal as the day it was manufactured regardless of age.

For example my favourite long-range hunting rifle is a lightly sporterised Swedish Mauser that was made in 1903 - still shoots well.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-94276800-1346188786_thumb.j

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When the comedian Billy Connelly did his trip to the arctic he was issued with a Lee Enfield, which I think was an SMLE III rather than a No 4. Yesterdays Times also showed SMLE's still in use in Afghanistan.

John

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A well maintained weapon with all its requisite parts intact will still be as lethal as the day it was manufactured regardless of age.

For example my favourite long-range hunting rifle is a lightly sporterised Swedish Mauser that was made in 1903 - still shoots well.

Fabulous rifle SS. More accurate than the GEW98. Each one was virtually handbuilt. I've also heard that the Germans obtained some in 1917 for sniper use as they were better than the Mausers coming from Germany. Never seen that in writing though.

John

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heres some captured weapons in Afghanistan. Would make a nice collection.

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Could our firearms specialists perhaps have a go at identifying that lot? Looks like a couple of Bergmanns (or similar) on the left end of the heap.

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Apart from the SMG's placed on the left they are predominantly SMLE rifles in that pile, with quite a few wrapped for GF probably out of India.

Also a couple of Martini's (believe it or not.!) as well as some which are 'cutdown' or sporting rifles ie. those without the full wood stocking setup.

Most of the finer detail is a little hard to make out, but as Mick has said it certainly would make quite a collection. I wonder what the bores are like.! :w00t:

Cheers, S>S

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The three weapons on the left are WW2 Russian PPSh-41 smgs. Extreme left just at the edge of the photo is an SKS carbine with the folding bayonet. The rifles seem to be mainly SMLEs. There are what look like Martini Henry cavalry carbines too. Difficult to make them out clearly as the photo is of low res and pixelates when enlarged. Look like one or two sporters thrown in too.

Tocemma

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I appreciate that we don't know the circumstances but it gives the impression that the locals are pulling the same trick that the Boers did when they had to surrender their arms in 1901; handing in all their worn out old shotguns and other junk and keeping their modern Mausers well hidden. Not too many AKs on show here...

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There are very large numbers of SMLEs still in service in India with police, village protection militias and other para-military forces, this is despite the huge numbers that have been surplussed out in the last decade. A reasonable proportion of these rifles are of WWI vintage which means they had an active service life of over 80 years in many cases. That is a testament to the design. If you look at some of the video footage of the terrorist attack on Mumbai (especially the railwaystation) there is one clip where policemen are returning fire with SMLEs.

India made the SMLE in .303 up through the mid 1960s when for four or five years they switched to the 7.62mm 2A/2A-1 rifles (same design using the 7.62mm Nato round) however, they also produced small batches of .303 rifles in the mid 1970s and mid 1980s. I have one produced in 1988 which, aside from a few minor details, is indistinguishable from my earliest MkIII produced in 1907. During much of the period from 1940-1980s the rifle factory at Ishapore ran a refinishing and refurbishing program alongside the production of new weapons.

Thousands of SMLEs of all vintages (often modified with lighter stocks and perhaps a scope mount) go into the field every year in the US as deer rifles so in this respect too the design continues on.

Chris

Regarding Chief Chum's point above -- I think there is probably an element of truth to this (also the opposite that for a propoganda picture you will pile up every "captured weapon" you can get your hands on to demonstrate how well you are doing) - but having spoken to a reasonable number of returned US servicemen it does appear that quite a number of relatively old bolt action rifles are used by Afghan snipers as their accuracy over longer ranges (despite their age) is better than that of the more modern weapons.

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Regarding Chief Chum's point above -- I think there is probably an element of truth to this (also the opposite that for a propoganda picture you will pile up every "captured weapon" you can get your hands on to demonstrate how well you are doing) - but having spoken to a reasonable number of returned US servicemen it does appear that quite a number of relatively old bolt action rifles are used by Afghan snipers as their accuracy over longer ranges (despite their age) is better than that of the more modern weapons.

Not so much the accuracy as the penatrative power of a 174 grain .311 FMJ through the plate armor worn on the troops' protective vests.

I understand that projectiles from 7.62x54R PKM general purpose machineguns are loaded in the .303 cases.

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Most American manuals suggest that 303 or any other round in that calibre/weight range is rather light for large bears, especially if they're angry. There's also a risk of fragmentation of softpoints at short range - though maybe not at 303 velocities.

In polar bear country, might it not be advisable to have a few Mk.VII FMJs or equivalent, alternating in the mag with the softpoints?

Oh, and IIRC the rifle Billy Connolly carried was a No.4 - I think I remember seeing the protruding muzzle and foresight mount.

Regards,

MikB

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Oh, and IIRC the rifle Billy Connolly carried was a No.4 - I think I remember seeing the protruding muzzle and foresight mount.

Regards,

MikB

Happy to be corrected. John

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Heres a teaser, should be easy...... Billy Connolly holding his weapon in the Arctic.

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I don't think I would want to face a Grizzly/Brown/Polar within anything designed as a military rifle. Those large carnivores have a bad habit of not knowing they are dead. Some of the larger magnum loads preferably with a back up shooter would be a lot safer.

khaki

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Perhaps a No4 Long Branch Mk1*

Well certainly a No4 MkI* originally but I couldn't say from that who the manufacturer is (longbranch or savage) or whether or not it might be have been upgraded to MkII status (hung trigger) since.

Chris

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