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Remembered Today:

T.E.Lawrence


Stanley_C_Jenkins

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Raymond Sargent's portrayal in "Warrior and Poet" was a true theatrical tour de force. He wrote it himself, and played all parts, convincingly switching between characters during the course of the play.

He toured with it, and was more than happy to perform in small intimate venues. I saw it twice - once in a village hall in Dorset (can't recall the village name now) and then again in the Wharf Theatre, a tiny old warehouse on the canal side in Devizes.

After reading Blackmaria's post above (thanks BM) I googled Sargent, and was distressed to see that he died in 2008, aged only 56. He really was a brilliantly talented man, and his too-early death was a great loss.

http://www.raymondsargent.com/w&p.htm

That's very sad, I hadn't realised he had passed away. I don't usually bother to keep the programmes from shows I have seen but I kept

that one because I was so impressed with his performance, as you say it was a true theatrical tour de force.

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As promised, this month's issue of 'Military History Monthly' does indeed have special features about Lawrence and the Arab Revolt. Looks interesting although I haven't had a detailed read yet. Yes, the bullet is mentioned...

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  • 5 months later...
1 hour ago, David Filsell said:

I do so love pictures of TEL in fancy dress. He really does look heroic.

He was.... IMHO.

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Well if my late uncle Albert was anything to go by he wasn't to the troops out in Palestine at the time. 

Rightfully or wrongfully Albert firmly believed that groups of Lawrence's Arabs would attack isolated British supply columns with as much enthusiasm as Turkish. 

The politest way I could put what Albert actually said was he thought Lawrence and his bands a bloody nuisance!

I have no idea if there was any such incident on which Albert's firm conviction could have been based.

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I have no idea if there was any such incident on which Albert's firm conviction could have been based.

 

Dates and places would help if this is to be taken seriously. Off hand I cannot think of any supply column which would have been in the area in which Feisal's forces operated. Amman and Salt come to mind, but I don't think that either of those lasted long enough to warrant re-supply

This sounds more like an old soldier's tale repeated in the base depot over a fag and a pint.

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12 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

 Amman and Salt come to mind, but I don't think that either of those lasted long enough to warrant re-supply

 

Jericho was captured in February 1918 and an advanced supply depot was set up there to cover the eventuality of any forces being sent east across the Jordan. The diaries for 21 March to 4 May should be consulted to check if there is any evidence to substantiate Uncle Albert's claim

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2 Australian Light Horse men were shot dead by Arabs on 28th September 1918. They were patrolling near Kalaat el Zerka on the Hejaz Railway. Sergeant Brook and Trooper Radburn were buried near the Hejaz Railway but their bodies were never recovered after the war. It is possible to find the approximate area on GoogleEarth from the notes in Brooks red cross file at the Autralian War Memorial so they must still be there.

The Arabs were hunted down by the Australians and shot dead.

 

L/Cpl TP Lowe was murdered by Arabs near Aqaba  13th May 1918.

Lt H Rowan died  22nd August 1918 as a results of wounds received from Arab on the way to attack Mudawarra Railway station.

No rpoof that any of these were "Lawrence's Arabs" but did not help relations between them and the allied troops probably.

Images are from the Australian War Memorial.

Dom.

brookreportaxjpg.jpg

P07906.144x.jpg

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6 hours ago, domsim said:

No rpoof that any of these were "Lawrence's Arabs" but did not help relations between them and the allied troops probably.

 

 

Dom,

 

That probably sums up all these tales

 

regards

Michael

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Purely for information

This - in part - in a book dealer's catalogue received today on "Meinertzhagen Diary Ruse. False Entries on T E Lawrence " by J N  Lockman 1995 - Clearwater Books for the interested. Cost is £30.00

 

"A detailed study refuting the T E Lawrence related entries in Colonel Meinertzhagen's Middle East Diary  1917 - 1956: claims long doubted (Jeremy Wilson called them "pure fantasy" in his 1989 biography) and here irrefutably rebuffed."

 

It looks like it just might be fascinating case of the Meinertzhagen dodgy pot calling the Lawrentian kettle black. Might be a fun read for all of the great man's sayers and naysayers alike.

Edited by David Filsell
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  • 4 weeks later...

Someone placed these beautiful flowers on TEL's grave recently.  Down here in Dorset we will always remember him.

 

IMG_3273.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎30‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 08:58, T8HANTS said:

Well if my late uncle Albert was anything to go by he wasn't to the troops out in Palestine at the time. 

Rightfully or wrongfully Albert firmly believed that groups of Lawrence's Arabs would attack isolated British supply columns with as much enthusiasm as Turkish. 

The politest way I could put what Albert actually said was he thought Lawrence and his bands a bloody nuisance!

I have no idea if there was any such incident on which Albert's firm conviction could have been based.

Same goes for my grandfather - low opinion of Lawrence.

 

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  • 4 months later...

In 1923 Colonel T E Lawrence became a Private in the Army at Bovington in Dorset... Lawrence detested the Army and was critical of the Tank Corps saying it was run by a gang of superannuated infantrymen which overruled those who were trying to build up an efficient service:   “The Army is unspeakable, more solidly animal than I believed Englishmen could be.   I hate them, and the life here and am sure it’s good medicine for me…. It’s an odd penance to have set oneself to live amongst animals for 7 years… the feel of tanks is so utterly unlike the RAF and everything here disgust me.”   The future of the RAF was for “talk and wonder”; the army was a place of last resort.   “A horrible life, and the other fellows fit in”, he wrote to Lionel Curtis at All Souls.   “I said to one ‘they’re the sort who instinctively fling stones at cats’.. and he said ‘Why what do you throw.

IMG_3662.JPG

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Mate,

 

We should not forget what the 2nd LH Bde had to do to protect large numbers of Turkish prisoners at Ziza around Amman from TEL Arab forces.

 

These were said to be Beni Saka Tribe arabs who approched the Australians and demanded we hand over the Turks.

 

These sniped our forces when we refused to do that, during late Sept and early Oct 1918.

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker
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11 hours ago, Ghazala said:

In 1923 Colonel T E Lawrence became a Private in the Army at Bovington in Dorset... Lawrence detested the Army and was critical of the Tank Corps saying it was run by a gang of superannuated infantrymen which overruled those who were trying to build up an efficient service:   “The Army is unspeakable, more solidly animal than I believed Englishmen could be.   I hate them, and the life here and am sure it’s good medicine for me…. It’s an odd penance to have set oneself to live amongst animals for 7 years… the feel of tanks is so utterly unlike the RAF and everything here disgust me.”   The future of the RAF was for “talk and wonder”; the army was a place of last resort.   “A horrible life, and the other fellows fit in”, he wrote to Lionel Curtis at All Souls.   “I said to one ‘they’re the sort who instinctively fling stones at cats’.. and he said ‘Why what do you throw.

 

As usual  this is Lawrence's personal, colourful opinion, I'm sure you can find plenty of opinions to the contrary from professional officers and men of the Tank Corps who are better qualified to pass comment.

Edited by domsim
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Mate,

 

While all arabs were not TEL arabs forces, these are often stated as such.

 

As stated arabs attacked Light Horse patrols during 1918 and a number of which were killed and wounded and a number disappeared.

 

But as Dom said they were not always arabs under TEL.

 

Not all arabs in Arabia and Palestine took orders from TEL or Prince Fisal.

 

As did most tribes then offering there services to Fisal.

 

Those not under some form of command (if you could called arabs as under command) from there Tribal leaders (like Ali and Abu tie from the movie) , these leaderless arabs did what they always did, and raided and robbed who ever they could.

 

The Turks suffered many losses from these, as did our own forces when they arrived in these areas then under Arab raiding.

 

The Light horse mention these contacts many times as they pushed the Turks around Amman during these months as well as earlier.

 

Some interesting men,

 

RADBURN Clarence William 3371 Pte 01 LHR 28R tos C Sqn D Troop 9-17 killed KIA 28-9-18 with Sgt Brook 5 miles north of Samra when patrol came under fire from arabs we killed 13 arabs buried on the battlefield grave lost NKG listed on Jerusalem War Memorial Palestine cousin Walter 34Bn KIA

 

SOLOMON Joseph 2391 Pte 11 LHR 19R to 4 LHTR 7-17 att AProvC Cairo 8-17 tos B Sqn D Troop 5-18 reported MIA 4-10-18 possibly killed KIA 4-10-18 by arabs near Kuneitra or deserted NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine (British & Boer War The Bedfordshire Regt (6380) 17 years shown as 38 served in British Army 1914/15 in F&B AKA Joe Solomon

 

TOLLIDAY Frederick Charles 4700 Pte LH Reinf tos 04 LHR 9-18 WIA 1-10-18 R/arm shot reason not stated possibly shot by Turk or Arab while clearing Damascus Ex 23R/13 LHR (2633) DNE later WWII
 

WEATHERILT Percy 172 Dvr 1 FCE to L/Cpl att Mex camp 2-15 remain Egypt to Cpl Artificer 2 LH Sig Troop 2-16 to L/Sgt 7-18 DCM & MID - for his actions as a despatch rider across the mountains of Moab molested by Arabs to Amman 10-18 to NME UK (British The Warwickshire Yeomanry 4 years)
 

 

S.B

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An excellent talk at Clouds Hill yesterday by Dr Neil Faulkner after which he gave me a signed copy of his book.

IMG_4357.JPG

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82 years ago today Lawrence had his motor cycle accident and died six days later.  To mark the occasion George IV was brought to Clouds Hill today.

IMG_4381.JPG

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IV?

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Mate,

 

Not good showing the kids.

 

Not helmet and jap sea boots (thongs (Australian) or flip fops (NZ) instead of proper shoes.

 

But looks good.

 

S.B

 

 

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