T.E.Lawrence

[Ghazala]

There is also a letter sent by TEL to Farida el Akle in which Dahoum enclosed his own letter, in Arabic, signed 'Sheikh Ahmad' - "First, we greet your kind person and I hope that you are in good spirits. Secondly, I hope you have received my previous letter. I would like to tell you that I am not from the Anaizi tribe but I am an Aleppan. Please give my greetings to Miss Hoel".

Farida el Akle taught the young Selim Ahmad the rudiments of reading and writing in Arabic at Lawrence's request. This letter to her, in faulty script, is Selim's attempt to prove to her that her lessons were not wasted.

[susancammas]

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Edited 12 April , 2016 by susancammas

[susancammas]

Good evening

I also have a copy of Garnett's book. I'm ashamed to admit I have not read it (yet!) I've had a quick look at the Index and find several references to the Tank Corps. There are also letters referring to the RAF (comparisons). If you would like me to look up anything specific, I'd be happy to oblige - just let me know.

Kind regards

Susan

[jonbem]

I've just started on "Empire of the Sand: How Britain made the Middle East" by Walter Reid. I've so far resisted having a sneaky look at his conclusions, but reading between the lines of his intro he's clearly taking issue with the traditional view that the Allied powers deliberately put one over on the Arabs, but feels rather that the situation was much more complex than that. Only a few chapters in at present;it's certainly very readable, but would be interested in others' opinions on both the book and Lawrence. He spent some time at an RAF station at Bridlington, East Yorks, so I've got a local interest - he also ties in with my Yeomanry research, as some of the Camel Corps guys came from the ERY and met Lawrence. One view might be that his skills as a guerrilla leader and a writer were balanced by some political naivety perhaps?

At Bridlington In the 1800s and early 1900s this area would have been full of activity when the herring boats came in with their catches to be auctioned.

The Lawrence Complex on the harbour side was later built on the site of the workshops of no. 21 Air Sea Rescue Unit.

The R.A.F. continued to use these workshops for Air Sea Rescue craft until 1978 when they were superceded by helicopters.

In 1932 T.E.Shaw arrived here from Plymouth as part of the crew of an ST 357 classification sea plane tender. T.E.Shaw was the name taken by Lawrence of Arabia in order not to be recognised. His job was to train the crews of the armoured target boats of RAF 1104 Marine Craft Unit and he drove the first boat until the crews were properly trained to take over.

Target boats were 38 feet long and consisted of two speed boats threequarters covered in armour plate, lined with expanded rubber to make them unsinkable

[Ghazala]

.

[trajan]

I am sure your knowledge is superior to mine Trajan. I quote from my mass of papers on TEL in which I cannot always identify the source. There is a letter that TEL wrote to Farida el Akle, saying he very much regrets she should have called his boy an ''Aneyza', since he is "Hittite from Carchemish". A letter written in Arabic characters. ...

I doubt the first! But I find the use of the ethnic here interesting as the 'Hittites' were only identified as such in the 1880's/90's, although pre-WW1 (and I assume during) the belief was that they were the same as the Biblical Hittites, of Carchemish area - and also at Aleppo.

Trajan

[David Filsell]

A boost. A new book in the TEL cannon reviewed interestingly today in the Daily Telegrah:

"Lawrence of Arabia's War' by Neil Falkner.

[Mark Hone]

Dr. Neil Faulkner is an interesting chap. An archaeologist, he is the editor of the glossy 'Military History Monthly' but also a leading light in the 'No Glory' campaign, which has attacked what it sees as the triumphalism of the ongoing centenary commemorations and sticks firmly to the futility/'lions led by donkeys' interpretation of the Great War.

[David Filsell]

Pretty sound chap then!

Holding a somewhat Aldingtonesque view of TEL, I wasn't indicating approval of yet another book on the man, simply advising of its publication for the faithful.

[trajan]

See this from the Spectator: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/t-e-lawrence-from-young-romantic-to-shame-shattered-veteran/

"Faulkner’s Lawrence is ‘the metaphor for the imperialism, violence and betrayals’ in the Middle East during the first world war, an approach at once psychologically compelling but inherently dangerous. On the one hand it offers a fascinating insight into Lawrence’s ‘psychic implosion’ during the course of the conflict and its aftermath. Its obvious shortcoming is in transforming Lawrence into a defenceless donkey onto which the biographer can pin his ideological tail."

[Ghazala]

'Hell in the Holy land by Lowell Thomas and Kenneth Brown Collings” The postscript by Lowell Thomas reads'....

"To this day, everywhere I go I am asked, “Why did Lawrence behave so strangely after the War” People still want to know why he declined knighthood, dodged his opportunity to become a General in the British army, asked not to be put up for a Victoria Cross, and went to into the RAF as a private under as assumed name... The Best answer I can give is this: "Lawrence of Arabia was an archaeologist, an oriental scholar, a poet and philosopher. A great crisis transformed him into a military man. Then he found himself a national hero. But he never wanted such fame. After the War his one desire was to go back to his former obscurity and scholastic life. In the middle ages he probably would have become a Monk in a monastery. In our day he did what he considered the next best thing: He became Aircraftman T.E. Shaw.

His death was a tragedy for the British Empire. For I believe that in the years to come he would have played the role of an elder states-man, one who to whom politicians and statesmen could turn for unprejudiced advice, for he was the wisest and most remarkable human being I ever knew. Thinking of him only as the young Lawrence of Arabia, and thinking of the ominous seethings of Mohammedan revolt in and around the Holy Land today. I wonder where civilisation is to look for his like, and Allenby’s, if-or when the hour of need arrives."

Lowell Thomas

[Mark Hone]

Look up Dr Faulkner's entry on the 'extensive internet library' for his ideological background.I have to say that Military History Monthly publishes some interesting articles but has a bit of an idee fixe about the Great War. I will always be grateful to it as a neighbour bought me a copy when I was lying immobilized in a hospital bed after my accident last year and it helped keep me relatively sane as I waited for my op. Next month's issue is an Arab Revolt special, I believe .

[David Filsell]

There of course almost as many begged questions about Thomas as there are about TEL.

[trajan]

... Next month's issue is an Arab Revolt special, I believe .

I wonder if the bullet 'fired' by TEL will be in that one...

[bushfighter]

Ghazala

Greetings

Reference Post #64

TEL didn't behave 'strangely'. He behaved as an individual who was not interested in conforming. But when you behave like that (as I well know) you quickly attract adverse or critical comment from those who view non-conformity as heresy. This small-minded point of view is especially strong amongst the regular military forces who depend on their idea of conformity to assist their sometimes puerile efforts at military management.

But I am proud that our once-great nation produced individuals like TEL who, as I have stated before, had the ability to lead and inspire men from vastly different cultures.

TEL is an easy target for those who wish to knock something in order to prove their own conformity or else hear the sound of their own voices.

It is good that there still is interest in TEL and that people write about him, whether to praise or knock or to cast doubt - I think that this is a reaction to the faceless way of life that we seem to have dropped into - birds may sing and flowers may blossom but your average citizens wander around looking at something digital in their hands.

We know that real-life heroes and heroines are a necessary part of our culture.

Harry

[Ghazala]

Well put Harry. 'Strangely' was Thomas's word not mine. I love TEL and work for the National Trust property of Clouds Hill. I am lucky enough to spend two days a week talking to people from all walks of life about him. The interest in him seems to grow down here in Dorset i.e our visitor numbers at Clouds Hill topped 18,000 last year, up 3,000 from the previous year. Come and see me some time.

Eddie

[bushfighter]

ROGER that Eddie. H.

[David Filsell]

Harry,
Perhaps he has simply become marked as too much of hero. But I assure you I really didn't raise the book to excite any controversy, but because so many share an interest in the man and his 'works' military and authorial. Nor was, or am, I aware of the views of author of the new book. Perhaps I should not have raised my view about 'questions, earlier in the thread, I know that you challenged me on the validity of my doubts. But questions do exist as I'm sure you would agree, not least TEL's lack of the willingness or ability to conform which you acknowledge. They as much as anything else mark the man as a total enigma. It makes him a man whose conduct I still, as I have said before, despite much reading, I cannot fit in any box marked as too much the hero, too much the villain. No doubt the debate will long continue, like the flow of book, most, now, with little to add of merit or valid discredit- but they do seem to sell.
Regards
David

[Ghazala]

T E Lawrence on stage. BBC Radio 3. Why has Lawrence become again a compelling a figure for our times? Listen to BBC Radio 3’s fascinating broadcast about the challenges of bringing Lawrence to the stage, with Howard Brenton, writer of the new play Lawrence after Arabia, and Adrian Noble, director of the Chichester Festival’s summer revival of Terence Rattigan’s play Ross.

[Guest]

Mate,

Of cause what I find hard is the notion that the Arabs had no victories untill TEL arrived and took Aquaba.

Not having read his book, only the movie see's the Arab army in retreat and defeat.

While TEL's did move the Arab revolt from Arabia up to Damascus, but only with British help.

This should not distract that the Arabs had gained some great victories in 1916, well before TEL showed up.

S.B

[redbarchetta]

Went to see 'Lawrence After Arabia' on Saturday at the Hampstead Theatre.

Story-wise it was OK - focused on TEL's angst over his Intelligence role vs helping the revolt be a success vs the Sykes-Picot and the post-war agreements that fell somewhat short of the promises he had made to Faisal.

Actor playing TEL was too young and the chap playing GBShaw didn't pull it off, IMHO, but overall a good evening's entertainment.

James

[David Filsell]

I think Lawrencians would horrified to think a play about TEL could be thus described. Indeed I have never seen any reference to him being 'good entertainment,.

[redbarchetta]

I think Lawrencians would horrified to think a play about TEL could be thus described. Indeed I have never seen any reference to him being 'good entertainment,.

By 'good entertainment', I did not mean laugh a minute, I just meant an interesting topic, well written and reasonably well performed... apologies to any Lawrencians who thought I was reducing TELs achievements to 'entertainment'...

James

[Black Maria]

A few years ago I went to my local Theatre to see 'The Warrior & The Poet - a one man dramatization of the last years of Lawrence of Arabia'

written and performed by Raymond Sargent . I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was 'good entertainment'. I remember many years ago an author

wrote a book about 'Scott of the Antarctic', in it he argued that Scott deliberately sent Captain Oates out of the tent to his death. He went on T.V

to promote the book and when asked how he knew this, he replied that he had studied Scott's character and he believed it was something he

would have done. I guess there will always be Lawrence bashers and come to that Scott bashers, because the British love nothing better than

building up and then bringing down their true heroes.

[Stoppage Drill]

Raymond Sargent's portrayal in "Warrior and Poet" was a true theatrical tour de force. He wrote it himself, and played all parts, convincingly switching between characters during the course of the play.

He toured with it, and was more than happy to perform in small intimate venues. I saw it twice - once in a village hall in Dorset (can't recall the village name now) and then again in the Wharf Theatre, a tiny old warehouse on the canal side in Devizes.

After reading Blackmaria's post above (thanks BM) I googled Sargent, and was distressed to see that he died in 2008, aged only 56. He really was a brilliantly talented man, and his too-early death was a great loss.

http://www.raymondsargent.com/w&p.htm