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WW1 Military Cross ebay


Seadog

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auchonvillerssomme wrote:

Old Owl where do you do your MC shopping? Overpriced at at 700 quid, they can go for over £800 unnamed!

I have no doubt that there are numerous examples of single, unnamed MCs being listed by dealers or eBay sellers at £800 or more, but it would be quite foolish for someone to purchase one at those prices as well-known and respected UK medal dealers currently list them at £100+ less (Chris Dixon - £600-£650 and Gary Neate - £695). Interestingly privately named, single MCs often sell for the same price, or even less, than single, unnamed examples (Chris Dixon recently listed one for £575.)

Lancashire Fusilier wrote:

Current market prices for Military Cross Groupings are ranging from 2000/3500 pounds depending on the medals in the grouping,

Certainly there are MC groups being offered at £2000-£3500 (and some are definitely worth that) but to make a general statement that 'current market prices for Military Cross Groupings are ranging from 2000/3500 pounds' is absurd, as MC groups can regularly be purchased for £900-£1300 from well-respected UK dealers. Jonathan Collins regularly has MC groups listed in the £900-£1000 range; Gary Neate currently has a number on his website for £1100 to £1200 and Chris Dixon has a number of MC groups on his site for £1100-£1300.

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auchonvillerssomme wrote:

I have no doubt that there are numerous examples of single, unnamed MCs being listed by dealers or eBay sellers at £800 or more, but it would be quite foolish for someone to purchase one at those prices as well-known and respected UK medal dealers currently list them at £100+ less (Chris Dixon - £600-£650 and Gary Neate - £695). Interestingly privately named, single MCs often sell for the same price, or even less, than single, unnamed examples (Chris Dixon recently listed one for £575.)

Lancashire Fusilier wrote:

Chris Dixon has a number of MC groups on his site for £1100-£1300.

Rflory,

Took a look at Dixon's offerings and he currently has seven MC groupings for sale starting at 1100 pounds to 2995 pounds, four of his MC groupings are 2295, 2350, 2600 and 2995 pounds with his average price for a MC grouping being 2000+ pounds which is the figure I mentioned.

Anyone can find examples of variations in prices, however if you are going to say that someone's generalization on price is absurd, at least have the good sense to quote an example that supports your contention, rather than quote an example that completely supports the view which you considered " absurd ". Dixon's overall pricing on Military Cross groupings is clearly in line with mine, and I really appreciate you quoting prices supporting my view.

Regards,

LF

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LF: I really don't see what else there is to say; your original statement was about the range of prices of MC groups - range is the difference between the lowest price and the highest price. You originally stated that 'current market prices for Military Cross Groupings are ranging from 2000/3500 pounds depending on the medals in the grouping' and I stated that MC groups could be had for £900 and up. Your statement in your most recent post is that you 'took a look at Dixon's offerings and he currently has seven MC groupings for sale starting at 1100 pounds to 2995 pounds'. I think you have just proven my statement and disapproved your original statement as you have now clearly report that the range of prices for MC groups in Chris Dixon's list is £1100 to £2995, not £2000-£3500 as you originally stated.

Dick Flory

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LF: I really don't see what else there is to say;

Dick Flory

Dick,

Let's keep it simple and just agree, which clearly we do, that in our humble opinions, the average mid price for a MC grouping is 2000+ pounds.

Regards,

LF

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"Current market prices for Military Cross Groupings are ranging from 2000/3500 pounds depending on the medals in the grouping, and the market is very strong for nice examples."

LF - I'm really not sure where you have got your prices from! A friend of mine has just bought a M.C & BAR , trio to a KIA Highlander for below your top estimate!

I have a lot of MC groups in my collection and the only one to get anywhere near to your valuations was a M.C, 1914/1915 & CdeG. The M.C. was a confirmed 1st Day Somme award with a great citation when he was 3 times wounded. He was in a Pals battalion and featured in the Pals book and the CdeG was almost certainly also for 1st July. (he never returned to France after his wounds).... That cost me £2800

Neil

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"Current market prices for Military Cross Groupings are ranging from 2000/3500 pounds depending on the medals in the grouping, and the market is very strong for nice examples."

Neil

Neil,

I thought this issue had been previously dealt with, and commented on.

In answer to the same comment as your's, and at the suggestion of another member, I had referred to Dixon's medals which shows MC Groups with a mid-price range of 2000+ pounds, with the majority of their 7 MC groupings listed being 2295, 2350, 2600 and 2995 pounds, I have also seen MC groups sold for much higher than that.

So again, to keep it very simple for the last and final time, and so as nobody else refers to my comment yet again! although I am happy with my original personal opinion that MC groupings have a range of 2000/3500 pounds, depending on the medals in the grouping, I am equally happy with the notion, as is more than borne out by the sampling of Dixon's listings, that the mid-price for MC groupings appears to be 2000+ pounds, which is what I said in post #29.

Regards,

LF

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Neil,

I thought this issue had been previously dealt with, and commented on.

In answer to the same comment as your's, and at the suggestion of another member, I had referred to Dixon's medals which shows MC Groups with a mid-price range of 2000+ pounds, with the majority of their 7 MC groupings listed being 2295, 2350, 2600 and 2995 pounds, I have also seen MC groups sold for much higher than that.

So again, to keep it very simple for the last and final time, and so as nobody else refers to my comment yet again! although I am happy with my original personal opinion that MC groupings have a range of 2000/3500 pounds, depending on the medals in the grouping, I am equally happy with the notion, as is more than borne out by the sampling of Dixon's listings, that the mid-price for MC groupings appears to be 2000+ pounds, which is what I said in post #29.

Regards,

LF

You are/were basing the price of the M.C on one dealers price. That is totally wrong, surely you must realise that?

If you post remarks that are wrong, you must be prepared for replies against your opinion. I don't know if you subscribe to Dixons Gazzette but if you do you will know that Chris (Dixon) sells many M.C groups in there and they don't even make it on his website. The ones on his website are the ones that have been in the gazzette and not immediately sold.

I recently sold two M.C groups to Chris. Both were fantastic fighting citations for trench raids to highly colelctable regiments/battalions. They appeared in his gazzette and sold straight away. They never even made it to his website. Both groups sold for under £2000 (£1650 & £1850)

What you have done is the same as going to one main BMW dealers forecourt, note their prices and then claim these prices to be the national average.

Here's just a couple of examples of what's on OTHER dealers lists at the moment:-

M.C, trio - M.C for repelling a German trench raid. Officer attacked them with his revolver, killed one and chased the rest out of the trench - £1400.

M.C (privately engraved), trio along with several WW2 medals to a Canadian battalion - £1850

Here's the prices I've paid for my last few M.C groups from dealers. All are to infantry regiements with good fighting citations

£1500

£1900

£1850

Lastly, if you are ever in the market for a nice M.C group please, please give me a shout. I have some that I'd happily let go for under £2000 that will net me a nice, healthy profit to boot.

Neil

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In medal collecting circles an issue of 1000's isnt rare

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I recently sold two M.C groups to Chris.

Neil

Neil,

I have no objection to another person's view whatsoever, I just do not want to keep going over the same old ground.

Some members do not bother to catch up on the theme of the thread and only read the last post before jumping in, despite the fact that their comments/questions had been adequately covered previously in the thread.

You, have obviously not been reading the thread! or you would have known that the reason I quoted Dixon, was because another member with the very same question as you just repeated, quoted Dixon to me in their argument as to MC grouping prices paid.

In the same way that you are quoting prices just under 2000 pounds, one at 1900 and one at 1850, a variation of a mere 100/150 pounds different to my estimation, I can also quote endless prices for MC groups selling worldwide for between 2000 and 3500 depending on the other medals in the grouping, with the average mid-price being 2000 pounds.

What you agreed to sell your MC groupings to Dixon for is your business, and perhaps you sold them too cheaply ? however, do not contradict yourself by using the ' BMW ' argument and then in the very same breath quote your selling prices for 2 MC groupings you accepted from Dixon. Neil's prices alone do not constitute a market average, and surely you must realise that ?

Unless someone is trying to get this thread listed as a ' Classic Thread ' can we please agree that in LF's humble opinion MC groupings have a mid-price range of 2000 pounds, and that Neil is willing to sell his MC groupings for a little bit less than that.

Regards,

LF

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In medal collecting circles an issue of 1000's isnt rare

The English Dictionary definition of ' rare ' is, infrequently occurring, uncommon, unusual, special.

To many Collectors, myself included, that is exactly our perception of the Military Cross, an award that is uncommon, unusual, special and infrequently occurs, hence clearly a ' rare ' award.

Regards,

LF

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For those interested, the citation for the Military Cross I posted previously, awarded to Lt. L.C. Sibborn, R.F.A., while serving in France, which was Gazetted on May 16, 1918, reads :-

" For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When his section was heavily shelled, and the majority of one of the detachments became casualties, her ordered the remainder of the men to the flank, and aided by a N.C.O. he succeeded in removing all the wounded to cover, returning twice under a most violent fire to do so. He later returned with a party and succeeded in extricating a disabled gun. His gallantry and devotion to duty were most commendable. "

Prior to this gallantry, in 1915, again in France, Lt. L. C. Sibborn had been wounded in action.

After WW1, Captain L.C. Sibborn, M.C. enlisted in the Royal Navy, and served in the Royal Navy throughout WW2. Retiring in 1948 with the Naval rank of Lieutenant Commander.

Lieutenant Commander L.C. Sibborn, M.C. died on 9th August, 1969.

I think we will all agree that he was an extremely brave man, who served his country in both World Wars, R.F.A. in WW1 and R.N. in WW2.

LF

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Actually, the metal in the medal isn't rare, rather plain and commonplace. The prices - what ever your opinion (and mine is that mid range for MC's in good groups is close to 1400-1500 pounds, Dixon's is well known to be one of the priceier dealers around) are totally subjective. In fact what you are valuing is the price of a good story.

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Actually, the metal in the medal isn't rare, rather plain and commonplace. The prices - what ever your opinion (and mine is that mid range for MC's in good groups is close to 1400-1500 pounds, Dixon's is well known to be one of the priceier dealers around) are totally subjective. In fact what you are valuing is the price of a good story.

Scott,

I am not sure that a medal is ever valued according to it's metal content, many highly valuable medals are made of common base metals, take the V.C. for example, which has always been made from the bronze from the cascabels of two Chinese cannon captured from the Russians at the siege of Sevastopol.

I am sure all those extremely brave men awarded the Military Cross would have been disgusted to hear of their prized and deserved award as being described in such derogatory terms as ' rather plain and commonplace '! and their Award Citation described as just a ' good story '.

Anyway, it is always interesting to listen to the views of others.

Regards,

LF

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I too have no objection to your personal views but there's no harm in me trying to change them is there :)

For info (not trying to start an argument but just incase you weren't aware) You will find that the price of groups differ, depending on the regiment, corps, etc etc. Tank Corps, RAF etc command big premiums. Cavalry/Yeomanry groups also (see Dixon's groups for reference)

I think to get an average price for an M.C group you would have to settle on one area, for example 'just' line regiments. Note the prices they sell for and get an average. It's no good including groups that have sat unsold on dealers sites for years because that means they are probably overpriced - I am NOT talking about Dixon's here btw but there are others where this is occuring. It wouldn't be an easy task.

Also, the reason I mentioned my sales to Chris was to show that he does in fact sell very good M.C groups to line regiments for less than 2k. I purposely used him as an example in an attempt to explain this point, not to constitute a market average.

"In the same way that you are quoting prices just under 2000 pounds, one at 1900 and one at 1850, a variation of a mere 100/150 pounds different to my estimation."

I realise that but in my opinion they are at the top end of the average price, not the bottom.

"I can also quote endless prices for MC groups selling worldwide for between 2000 and 3500 depending on the other medals in the grouping, with the average mid-price being 2000 pounds."

The bold text may be the reason why your estimates are high. If we are including M.C groups with any other medals in the group other than the relevant campaign medals then of course the price will be higher than a M.C & trio/pair - Which sell on average for between £1200-£1800 in my humble opinion. (To a British line regiment)

Agreed, let's agree to disagree. Agreed?

P.S - The M.C is not a rare medal. We'll have to disagree on that aswell. :D

Neil

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I too have no objection to your personal views but there's no harm in me trying to change them is there :)

Agreed, let's agree to disagree. Agreed?

Neil

Neil,

Many books have been written on medal/award values, so I hardly expect the matter to be resolved here.

As you say let's agree to disagree, and I hope someone is getting a big thank you from Dixons for all this good publicity!

As to the use of the word ' rare ', I gave the correct English Dictionary definition of that.

I personally think that the Military Cross is a magnificent, rare award, with great design features which fully complement the medal's solid silver construction, and I am extremely pleased and proud to have one in my Collection.

Also, please sharpen your pencil, as I am shortly going to post another award groupings!

Regards,

LF

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"Also, please shapen your pencil, as I am shortly going to post another award groupings!"

Good, I look forward to seeing it (Them).

Norman :thumbsup:

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L.F.,

Although I did not really wish to be drawn back into this most interesting game of tennis!! I do think that you are still mis-using the word 'rare' with regard to the award of the M.C., regardless of its Oxford Dictionary definition.

I do not think that any medal collector or dealer would not refer to the M.C. as a rare award, with the possible exceptions as stated by myself in a much, much earlier posting. In your case, and at risk of being frivolous, I can only see that it may be regarded as rare within your own collection.

Apologies for disagreeing again--but it certainly is not personal.

Robert

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"Also, please shapen your pencil, as I am shortly going to post another award groupings!"

Good, I look forward to seeing it (Them).

Norman :thumbsup:

Thanks, Norman.

Regards,

LF

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L.F.,

Although I did not really wish to be drawn back into this most interesting game of tennis!! I do think that you are still mis-using the word 'rare' with regard to the award of the M.C., regardless of its Oxford Dictionary definition.

I do not think that any medal collector or dealer would not refer to the M.C. as a rare award, with the possible exceptions as stated by myself in a much, much earlier posting. In your case, and at risk of being frivolous, I can only see that it may be regarded as rare within your own collection.

Apologies for disagreeing again--but it certainly is not personal.

Robert

Robert,

No need to apologise, views are always personal, I consider the Military Cross as a rare award based on it being uncommon, unusual, special and that it occurs infrequently.

Anyway, lets all move on, I think this aspect of the Military Cross has been fully covered.

It would be nice to hear more about the actual award, and also see some more examples of Military Cross groupings posted by other members who actually own a Military Cross grouping, otherwise I may start to think that not many members own a Military Cross grouping, or have indeed ever owned a Military Cross grouping, and we start to get the impression that the reason for that fact, is due to it's rarity or it's expensive price, or both!

Regards,

LF

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This topic commenced with an un-named cased Military Cross which was erroneously described in ebay as The British Military Cross Medal when there is no such thing. The Military Cross is not a medal its a Decoration.

To put matters in context you could buy an un-named GV Military Cross cased or otherwise for less than £20 in 1969 compared with the 2012 guide price of between £550 to £625, which is an increase over the 2011 guide price of £50.

There were 37,081 Military Crosses awarded covering the period from August 1914 to May 1920. A further 339 Military Crosses were awarded between 1920 and 1939 for conflicts mainly in the Middle East and in India - these included 21 Crosses for the Afghan War 1919.

For those with sufficient disposable income in the late 1960's then you could buy a GV Military Cross with WWI trio depending on Unit/ Regiment and Theatre from £25 to £50. The 2011 and 2012 guide price for an attributable GV MC group is £1,000 - £1,750 but this is only a guide for much depends on the theatre and Unit/Regt in which the award was gained and whether the recipient survived or was a casualty - casualties command a premium.

In the scheme of things its wrong to generalise and say MCs are rare - yes there were only some 37,000 awarded but I would suggest that MC's awarded for the so called sideshows such as Africa, India, Italy, Mesopotamia, Palestine, and Saloniki during the Great War are likely to be highly sort after by collectors and will constitute a fraction of those awarded for actions on the Western Front or at Gallipoli. Multiple gallantry groups such as DSO, MC, or MC, DCM will command much higher prices and will be highly sort after by those with sufficient means to purchase them. Likewise attributable miniature groups which include one or more gallantry awards are a good starting point for some serious military research.

As for the price of individual Military Cross groups the highest bidder in the market place will have secured what he wanted irrespective of price. Other collectors may choose to purchase a specific Military Cross group to a specific Regiment or Unit from their preferred dealer and will wait for the right group to turn up before doing so.

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As always, it is the exception which proves the rule, or is it?

I wonder were these stolen or simply misplaced? Does anyone know if these were ever found?

Thanks for posting this Norman---I don't suppose that this was the one you saw on ebay?

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I personally think they are down the back of a settee or have been mistakenly put in the fridge during an absent-minded moment. As for the one on ebay well now I know what is on the back of the missing one the ebay one could easily be the lost medal!. Bur seriously though (what!) I think they are still missing which is a great shame.

Regards

Norman

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I personally think they are down the back of a settee or have been mistakenly put in the fridge during an absent-minded moment.

Regards

Norman

Thanks Norman.

I know that feeling!! having turned the house upside down on occasion to find something which I have misplaced--only to find it in the place where I first looked!! Now how did that happen!!?? This is what my wife refers to as having had a 'man look'. I am also not good at multi-tasking--apparently!!

Regards, Robert

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Hi all,

A bit off this topic, I realise, but I would be very pleased if anyone had any knowledge of my Grandfather's medal set. Lt. Isaac Wallis Smith R/E MC and campaign medals. Someone sent me an email back in about 2007 to say that they had been sold on EBay but declined to give me a name or any other information but he did send some photos which clearly show that the MC has been engraved. Any info gratefully received.

Thanks - Martin Cook

Medals1.jpg

MedalsFace1.jpg

MedalsFace2.jpg

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