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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Who was Williams sweetheart


RaySearching

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A poignant reminder of how short life could be on the Western Front

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25 Days after making his will William Thomas Taylor was killed in action with the 6th Bn DLI

who was his sweetheart Alice White ?

she is not residing at 51 Ernest Street on the 1911 census , Perhaps we will never know

regards Ray

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Interesting that she's living next door to his mother.

How many Alice White's are there in Middlesborough on the census - single and around the right age?

Trawl of the local newspaper might have something about her if there was an obituary.

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Why, only 25 days before his death does he sign it as No. 28693 4th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment?

Surely he wasn't transferred in those few weeks?

Name: TAYLOR, WILLIAM THOMAS. Rank: Private

Service No: 5709. Date of Death: 05/11/1916. Age: 23.

Regiment/Service: Durham Light Infantry. 1st/5th Bn.

Grave Reference: I. G. 25. Cemetery: WARLENCOURT BRITISH CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of Richard and Lucy Taylor, of 53, Ernest St., Middlesbrough.

and to add another name into the ring...

Name: Alice A White. Spouse Surname: John W Baker. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1919

Registration district: Middlesbrough. Inferred County: Yorkshire. Volume: 9d. Page: 1404

being the only marriage in Middlesbrough that seems to fit (although not long to grieve for poor William)

but I can't find many Death Registrations for a Alice A Baker in Middlesbrough, so perhaps she then moved away?

(that's if it is Alice A). Curiously there are a lot of Middlesbrough Alice M Bakers!!!

or she never married and died back where she was born....

Name: Alice A White. Birth Date: abt 1892. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1930

Age at Death: 38. Registration district: Sheffield, West Riding. Volume: 9c. Page: 447

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I've found an Alice White, born 1899, living at 44 Rockcliffe Street, Middlesbrough in 1911. She would have been 17/18 when William was killed.

In 1901 Alice was living at 22 Pearson Street, Middlesbrough with her parents, Stephen & Agnes.

There are 2 others, 1 considerably older than William and 1 far too young, living in Middlesbrough in 1911

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I was looking at her also, Sandie.

Can you make out her middle initial on the 1901? It's been transcribed as P but I can't find anyone who fits the bill.

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William's name is recorded on the Middlesbrough Roll of Honour. He was killed in action at Mametz Wood (Somme) whilst serving with 1/5th DLI.

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It's an A.

Alice ANN White. Born 14 June 1899 M'boro. Married John W Baker April 1919 M'boro. Died Alice Ann Baker in Cleveland March 1979.

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thanks for all of the replies

I just posted the will as I thought it rather poignant

and

Hi Kevin

re your Quote

Why, only 25 days before his death does he sign it as No. 28693 4th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment?

Surely he wasn't transferred in those few weeks?

whilst it looks like 4th Bn on his will its actually 9th Bn Yorks

he was Transferred to the 6th Bn DLI on the 18th October 1916

his service papers are open to scrutiny on An******

unfortunaty due to An*****'s indexing system half his documents have been misplaced

I found them earlier in another Taylor's document file

I shall retrace my steps and try and relocate them they give a wider picture

regads Ray

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I couldn't find anything on the Probate Calendar, so the "soldiers will" is of interest, I just wonder how much Alice received and whether she had a happy life with John.

Thanks for posting, obviously several Pals enjoy these brain teasers!

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on a lighter note
just wondering if Chubby Browns collaboration and remix with Smokie (living next door to Alice)
was based on Williams Sweetheart

Now every time I hear the remix it will remind me of William

regards Ray

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....although not long to grieve for poor William)..

True, but doesn't mean he was forgotten - and they were very different times, Kevin. With a shortage of able-bodied men post-WW1 and a culture where women married young and could be made to feel a failure for not marrying, I doubt she was the only one to be grateful to have a husband. Also, from what I've read, I understand that women who'd been doing men's jobs during the war were expected to give them up when the men returned, which must have pushed many of them back into a financial dependence.

Slightly OT, my mother talked of rushing into her first marriage at the outset of WW2 "because you never knew if you would see them again" and (in her early 20s) she was already being made to feel "on the shelf".

I just hope she got what William wanted her to have.

Louise

Louise

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John and Alice Baker possibly had 4 children - Joseph Dec 1920, John June 1923, Alice December 1931 and William March 1940. (All born in Middlesbrough, Father Baker and Mother White)

John W Baker died in December 1951. Born in 1896, it's very likely he'd served in the Great War. It's also possible that Alice saw 2 of her sons go off to war.

Even though she was a widow for 28 years I hope 32 years of marriage and 4 children means Alice was happy.

Sandie

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on a lighter note

just wondering if Chubby Browns collaboration and remix with Smokie (living next door to Alice)

was based on Williams Sweetheart

I hope not. She went off with some flash git in a big limousine!

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Ray, thank you for posting William's letter. I've enjoyed the conversation it has lead to but, that aside, it illustrates the human tragedy of the Great War.

Regards,

Sandie

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John and Alice Baker possibly had 4 children - Joseph Dec 1920, John June 1923, Alice December 1931 and William March 1940.

So William was remembered in their 4th child.

Who knows, he may pop up on here!

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... (although not long to grieve for poor William)

Louise is right, few women had time to grieve. It's difficult to understand these days but a husband meant an income. Women were rarely able to earn a living wage and even working class females were not brought up to work, though lots did. They were expected to keep house and look after children. Mothers taught their daughters to be a wife not an independent woman.

No husband usually meant living with your parents until their death. My Gran's youngest sister never married and was a housekeeper and nurse for her parents until they died. For a widow with children staying on your own could mean losing your children. My Grandad's mother had to put her sons in a childrens home after her husband was killed at sea. She had to live with her brother and sister in law and cleaned other people's houses and worked in a hospital kitchen to pay for her 'keep'.

The Liverpool charity PSS, then named the Liverpool Personal Service Society, was started in 1919 to assist the wives of soldiers killed or maimed in the Great War. There was no 'welfare state' and your best hope was to remarry, especially if you had children.

You will notice if you're ever searching the CWGC database just how many women had remarried by the time their first husband was commemorated.

There is a book about the beginnings of the charity 'The Crowded Stairs' by Dorothy Keeling which illustrates how hard life was for widowed women and men unable to work.

(Available on Abe Books, so you can help GWF - http://www.abebooks....=crowded stairs)

Liverpool Personal Service Society started Age Concern, Citizens Advice Bureau and Marriage Guidance Council (Relate) http://www.pss.org.u...-11-0-home.html.

I never meant this to turn into a bit of a sales pitch, sorry.

Sandie

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So William was remembered in their 4th child.

So John Baker must have been a good sort to allow his son to be named after his wife's lost sweetheart.

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So John Baker must have been a good sort to allow his son to be named after his wife's lost sweetheart.

Assuming that he was named after the dead soldier, rather than the probable several other Williams who would have been members of the couple's families.

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Assuming that he was named after the dead soldier, rather than the probable several other Williams who would have been members of the couple's families.

John, I'm a romantic. I want a happy ending for Alice, indulge me!

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