Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Great Grandad Help! Service Records India, Border Regiment


bubblegum

Recommended Posts

Hello, I hope it is ok for me to post this request here, I was alittle unsure where to post it.

My name is Ros and I am researching my Great Grandfather Alfred Bertram Goodwin 203607 4th Border Res (posted 21.6.17) then 2/4 Border Regt (posted 26.09.17)

I have downloaded his Service records and from it I make out the following but there are bits I don't understand and wonder if someone may be able to assist me or point me in the direction of someone who may be able to help.

Attested 16th May 1916 - address (gives home address and the address R2 West Township Gretna, I have searched and searched but cannot find anything out about it, why he was there. It is of interest because my great uncle was born there 29.11.16 but they were not living there, she was still living in their home town so she must have been visiting him. hope that makes sense.

Enlisted 14.06.1917 at Carlisle

From the 14.06.17 - 26.07.17 he was Otome huh.gif???? or thats what it looks like

On board ship 27.07.17 - 25.09.17 is there anyway of finding out what ship?

Garrison Duty India 26.07.17 -

Field service 06.05.1917 - evacuated from war area 17.08.19

Afganistan War 1919

07.06.19 admitted to 35 BGH Peshawar???

04.08.19 - 10.09.19 Station 18' BGH (then a word starts with G) I presume this is British General Hospital but where? he had Malaria

Depot 189TF posted 01.11.19 What is this icon_question.gif?

Discharged 08.11.19

There is an army form 3083 that lists a ship called the Brighton, is it possible to find out more and maybe even a picture of this boat?

I'm sorry if this is muddled and im sorry there are so many questions, I knew it was a World War but didn't know anything of the involvement in India and Afganistan at that time so I just want to learn as much as I can not just about my great grandad but what part he had to play in the War, what it was like, how he had to live what jobs might he of done...... there is just so much to learn so any help is greatly apprieciated.

Thank you to anyone who might be able to help

Ros

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ros,

The entry should read 14/6/17 to 26/7/17 at home, ie he was intraining at a home base.

Depot 189 TF(Territorial Force?) the 2/4th Bn were territorials rather than regulars.

Hope this helps,

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Robert, I did wonder if it was supposed to say at home but never thought it would mean home base I thought it meant he was on leave 'doh' so how can i find out what his home base was ?

I will look up territorial bases now Robert thanks again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ros,

I would imagine that if he enlisted at Carlisle then he may well have trained there or nearby--but I am not certain about this!!

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your great grandfather was involved in the 1919 Afghanistan war then you might find the following background of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Anglo-Afghan_War

A number of troops who had served in the Great War, but whose time had not elapsed when the war ended were sent out to the North-West Frontier to fight the Afghans [nothing changes] and subsequently were awarded a campaign medal - The Indian General Service Medal with a clasp for the 1919 North West Frontier operation. If he was entitled to the medal then his medal card should have:"IND.GS.AFGN.NWFF.1919" - or similar on it somewhere. At the time we were the imperial power in India and had been fighting in and over Afghanistan on and off for at least seventy years. [The Afghans never quite appreciated what we were doing there and why we kept on entering their territory with war-like intent, however, if we wanted a fight they were more that willing to oblige - as I said, nothing changes]

Dave Swarbrick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Field service date is actually 6.5.1919. It looks like he did garrison duty with the 2/4th Border Regiment from 1917 to 1919 and then took part in the Afghan Campaign. His records show the India General Service Medal with the 1919 Afghanistan clasp.

He did not serve in an active theatre of war during the period 5-8-1914 to 11-11-1918 and so was awarded the British War Medal single medal for WW1 service, plus the India medal for his 1919 Afghan campaign. He was also entitled to the Silver War Badge, having been discharged due to his malaria.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for that link Dave, its very interesting I must be honest I thought the War in Afghanistan was a modern day thing......

Steve .... ooppps a typo I really should double check before I post. Sorry if it seems a silly question but what was Garrison Duty?? Were they involved with the daily running of the camp, or guarding the camp, doing paperwork .... Ive been reading the War Diaries and it shows them moving around quite alot do I take it he would just have stayed at a base camp??

Do i take it that while he was part of the Afghan campaign he would of been involved in active service?

Sorry to ask so many questions but ivebeen a genealogist for many many years and have gone back many generations but it is only recently that I have been at the history of not so long ago and I amazed at the part many of my family played in both world wars and i'm finding it a struggle to be honest as there is so much to learn but determined to learn as much as I can.

Thank you so much for all your time and help given to me so far

Regards

Ros

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ros,

Just a few more random observations which might be of use/interest:

The SWB record for Albert [not Alfred] Bertram Goodwin 203607 Private Border Regiment gives his enlistment date as 16/5/16 and his discharge date as 8/11/19 - cause of discharge Para 392 [xvi] {no longer physically fit for war service} King's Regulations - due to sickness - had served overseas - age 33.

His record has the information that he returned to the UK on A T Varela on 30/9/19 [image number 13736] - although I too can read "Brighton" as the name of the ship that he was on from Cairo in December 1919 [image 13738] - possible that he was moved from one ship to the other at Cairo on route back to UK.

Further documents show that he contracted malaria in October 1918 in India and was admitted to 35 BGH [brigade General Hospital?] Peshawar on 7th June 1919. [Long list of symptoms etc. on image 17359] - he was then transferred to 18 BGH on 4th August 1919.

Dave Swarbrick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lesson learnt early in the morning is not a good time to post for me as I make many mistakes Sorry.....

I also saw that about the Varela which I have since found out was an Ambulance Transport Ship although so was the Brighton I believe, would there be any paperwork available that would have him listed on either boat maybe at the TNA ? ... I am planning a visit to have a look if there is anything else mentioned about Albert in the Medal Roll.

I didn't think of BGH being Brigade General Hospital so this gives me something else to look at.

Thank you once again for all your help

Ros

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Hi Ros,

you might find "The Border Regiment in the Great War" by Colonel HC Wylly useful It has an appendix about the Operations in Afghanistan in 1919.

Linda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Sorry if it seems a silly question but what was Garrison Duty?? Were they involved with the daily running of the camp, or guarding the camp, doing paperwork .... Ive been reading the War Diaries and it shows them moving around quite alot do I take it he would just have stayed at a base camp??

During the existence of the British Raj (and even in the days of the Honourable East India Company) a number of British units were based in India both to keep order (internal security) also for the defence of India. (After the Mutiny an Indian Army brigade would consist of one British battalion and three Indian Army battalions.)

In 1914, a number of regular battalions were brought back from India to fight on the Western Front. They were replaced by Territorial Force battalions.

These would carry out the same duties as their regular predecessors which would vary a great deal depending on exactly where they were an what was happening.

RM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

You may find some helpful information on 2/4 Border via the attached link to Long Long Trail site -

http://www.1914-1918.net/border.htm

You will see mention of 3/4 & 3/5 Border in Isle of Man from 1916 - they were the training battalion for 1/4 & 2/4 Border so he was likely on the Isle of Man before going overseas as a reinforcement to

2/4 Battalion.

Sorry I don't have access to Ancestry so can't see his service papers.

Was he born in Gretna? What was his employment on joining? (Given joining date presume he was conscripted under Military Service Act).

Just a thought - is the address on the site of the large Munitions factory at Gretna?

Regards

Steve Y

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ros


Greetings



You may find this article of interest, as I have briefly mentioned the role of the other Border Territorial battalion (1st/4th) also in Burma during the Great War.



http://www.kaiserscross.com/304501/468722.html



Harry


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...