Armyaviation Posted 20 July , 2012 Share Posted 20 July , 2012 What insignia or flashes would a Private of the 14th Argylls wear in jan- may 1917? I know they were part of 120 Bde/40th Div, but would they have worn an Argylls flash, or the Bde insignia, Div insignia or none?! He was at the front in a rifle company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 20 July , 2012 Share Posted 20 July , 2012 While the battalion was in the 40th Division they wore a red diamond with a yellow circle superimposed on it. I believe this was worn on both sleeves. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armyaviation Posted 21 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2012 Ah ok thanks, so a battalion would wear the flash of the division then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 21 July , 2012 Share Posted 21 July , 2012 The flash I described was a battalion identification. The 40th Division sign, a bantam cock and oak leaf sprig on a white diamond was produced as a cloth badge but I can't tell you the exact date when it was introduced for wear during 1918, (possibly after the 14th A & S H left the division?) Perhaps there is someone else on the Forum who can provide a date. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armyaviation Posted 23 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2012 Out of interested where did you get that info about the red diamond flash from?a book?or on the net?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 23 July , 2012 Share Posted 23 July , 2012 Info comes from examining an example in the IWM's insignia collection many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 27 July , 2012 Share Posted 27 July , 2012 1920's Players Cigarette Card of 40th Division sign / battle patch. When first raised the division used a white diamond symbol but as this clashed with the 42 & 48th Battalions they added a cockerel beneath the diamond outline (possibly late 1916). I believe it is possible that the cockerel was used to reflect the Division's original status as a bantam unit but have not been able to confirm this. The acorn centre was added after November 1917 as representative of the 40th 's capture of Bourlon Wood. Sources: Above Card, Kitchener's Army by Ray Westlake and British Battle Insignia (1) by Mike Chapell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armyaviation Posted 27 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2012 Ok thats brill thanks, but would a soldier have worn the diamond with cockerel underneath or the red diamond with yellow circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 28 July , 2012 Share Posted 28 July , 2012 Ok thats brill thanks, but would a soldier have worn the diamond with cockerel underneath or the red diamond with yellow circle? I can't comment on the specifics of the Argyll's as I've no knowledge of battalion patches within the 40th; Mike H has given you details regarding this. However, the convention would most likely have been to have worn both, depending upon chronology - 40th on upper shoulder and battalion on lower sleeve (per Mike). It may well be that brigade insignia was also worn and the red diamond/yellow circle device could well be represent brigade/battalion. A note of caution. The whole topic of divisional insignia and battalion patches is not a proven path. Many inconsistencies can be found and much has not been recorded. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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