corisande Posted 7 June , 2012 Share Posted 7 June , 2012 I confess I am lost with Indian Army commissions. I have been trying to research a man who joined the ADRIC (Irish Auxiliary Police) in 1921, but apart from Indian Army all I have is "J Boyle" My research so far - click link for MIC and notes - has got his MIC and a few LG entries. The MIC does not give his Christian name, nor any previous service 1917 Aug 30. Lands in France 1918 Jan 12. 1st Bn., 55th Coke's Rifles. Lieut. J. Boyle, I.A.R.O., attd., to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Coy. From 12th to 30th Jan. 1918 1919 Jul 3. Indian Army Reserve of Officers. Lieutenants to be Captains. J. Boyle. 1921 Feb 16 Joined ADRIC with service no 1687. posted Platoon Commander in J Coy and A/CQM His MIC mentions 110 Mahratta L I as well. I cannot find his commission, mainly as I do not know his Christian name. I suspect that he was commissioned from the ranks - the single initial. Can anyone who knows about Indian Army get me any further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 "Suitable Civilian Gentlemen" were inducted into the IARO and then commissioned into regiments and corps. Another source of officers was the commissioning from the ranks of Indian Volunteer units, particularly those that had volunteered for overseas service in theatres such as East Africa, Mesopotamia, Egypt and France. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 8 June , 2012 Share Posted 8 June , 2012 Perhaps his forename is on the medal rolls. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 11 June , 2012 Share Posted 11 June , 2012 The following reference may be of help if you are able to get to the British Library in London There is a book available at the British Library, in five volumes, Alphabetical list giving particulars of officers of the Indian Army Reserve of Officers / [issued by] Army Headquarters, India, Military Secretary’s Branch. The catalogue entry states "Contents: [v.1]. 26th June 1916 _ v.2. 24th January 1917 _ v.3. 31st December 1917 _ v.4. 30th June 1918 _ v.5. 31st December 1918". The shelfmark is OIR 355.37 Open Access This reference is taken from the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Indian Army, section Reserve of Officers http://wiki.fibis.or...rve_of_Officers Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 11 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2012 Thanks for the hints, I live in Spain, so only visit UK rarely. I will have see if someone comes to the thread with anything concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Going back over this chap, I never really found out much more except Christian name "John" Date of Birth 1894 Sep 10. Born Lanarkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 (edited) There are now a number of Indian Army Lists online. From the July 1918 edition, on page 522 he is shown as 2nd Lieutenant, attached 1st Battalon, 55th Coke’s Rifles. https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.285012/2015.285012.Indian-Army#page/n845/mode/1up Edit: Copy and paste this link I could not see him in the list of 2nd Lieutenants IARO from page 206d, but may have missed him. The book Search was not working. https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.285012/2015.285012.Indian-Army#page/n335/mode/1up/ Edit:Copy and paste this link More online editions are linked on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Indian Army List online. Select the Archive.org versions https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online Cheers Maureen Edited 15 July , 2017 by Maureene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Thanks Maureene I will check those out. Never eases to amaze me how much is added to on-line searches each year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 In the January 1919 Indian Army List he is in the 1st Battalion, 55th Coke's Rifles as a 2nd Lieutenant, attached, IARO, appointment date 13th Dec 1917. Can't see anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 (edited) Thanks you Steven, I struggled with the Indian Army List and never managed to get that :-) So I have his commission date now. What looks a little odd, and I do not understand the class structure of the Indian Army, is that he landed in France in AUG 1917 from MIC, but did not become a 2nd Lt until Dec Is there a simple explanation for this. I did not think that he would have served in the Indian Army as an OR Edited 15 July , 2017 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 What's om his MIC as a unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Interesting: the Indian Army (except cavalry and some support units) had gone from France by then. I wonder if he had a brief appointment with a British unit as part of his commissioning process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2017 That would seem the most logical answer, but with a name like his it is virtually impossible to find/prove Nothing obvious in WO338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 July , 2017 Share Posted 15 July , 2017 Dear corisande, The British Library (India Office Library) have three or four volumes of Indian Army Reserve of Officers details, on the open shelves. You could ask/eMail the BL directly or avail yourself of a researcher (as I do, living in Germany). The entries look like the attached. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Thanks for the tip, I will add that reference to my list for next time in TNA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 A Lieutenant John Boyle was admitted to the Indian Army Reserve of Officers on 29 July 1917 from the Cameron Highlanders, but the gazette notification was not published until 23 January 1920. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31751/page/989 the heading is on page 988. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Thanks Harry. That looks on balance of probability to be him. He was born in Glasgow so a commission in a Scottish Regt is certainly on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 The Army List of March 1916 lists 2nd Lt. J. Boyle serving with 8th (Reserve) Bn. Cameron Highlanders with a commission date of 3 July 1915. John Boyle was gazetted 2nd Lt. on the General List 3 July 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29214/page/6444 Promoted to Lt., Cameron Highlanders, 1 January 1917 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30002/page/3004 Heading Cameron Highlanders on page 3003 There is a L.G. notification of him being actg. Capt. 1st Bn., 55th Coke's Rifles, attached from I.A.R.O. 12 - 30 Jan 1918 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32262/page/2227 Promoted Capt. I.A.R.O. 3 July 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31942/page/6590 Relinquished his probationary appointment I.A.R.O. 28 October 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32118/page/10864 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Dear corisande, The IARO volumes are at the BL (in the middle of London and a hassle to get registered, before admittance), not TNA (outlying Kew and far less trouble). Having said that, Harry (well done, Mate!) has obviated the BL connection and solved your Boyle, IARO saga, in one fell swoop! My researcher would charge me fifty quid for that, straight-away. Indeed, this demonstrates the beauty of the Great War Forum, from which I have profited time and time again, thanks to the expertise and generosity of members like Harry. A large proportion of my medal collection are to the IARO, which are notoriously difficult to research. These adventurous types were called upon in their thousands to fill much-needed gaps, but their services went largely un-heralded, post-Great War. Do you have Boyle's medals, one wonders...? Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Harry , Thank you, that is both impressive.and comprehensive. I had only half those LG entries, and hence was missing the whole picture that you have uncovered Do I have his medals ? - answer is no, I do not collect medals (too poor!) I am researching the 2000 or so ex-officers who joined the Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary. Having been through them all once - you can see how long it too, in that I started this thread 5 years ago. I do a mini CV on each, to try to get an overall picture of the background of the men who joined and what happened to them afterwards. The vast majority are researchable, but there are a few like John Boyle who has a very common name, and only one initial, who are difficult to follow. Put on top of that the difficultly of researching the IARO and I was getting nowhere.(until now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 3 hours ago, HarryBrook said: The Army List of March 1916 lists 2nd Lt. J. Boyle serving with 8th (Reserve) Bn. Cameron Highlanders with a commission date of 3 July 1915. John Boyle was gazetted 2nd Lt. on the General List 3 July 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29214/page/6444 Promoted to Lt., Cameron Highlanders, 1 January 1917 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30002/page/3004 Heading Cameron Highlanders on page 3003 There is a L.G. notification of him being actg. Capt. 1st Bn., 55th Coke's Rifles, attached from I.A.R.O. 12 - 30 Jan 1918 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32262/page/2227 Promoted Capt. I.A.R.O. 3 July 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31942/page/6590 Relinquished his probationary appointment I.A.R.O. 28 October 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32118/page/10864 How does the system work that he was appointed Captain 3 July 1919 (someone else was appointed a temporary Captain) yet he had a probationary appointment ? Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Maureen, I have no idea. L.G. notification of his resignation from the I.A.R.O. on 1 May 1922 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32792/page/811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Dear Harry, Thanks for finding and posting that. The resignation under that of Capt Boyle is fascinating: IARO Second Lieutenant Valentine Patrick Terrel Vivian, OBE, and granted the rank of Major. That is what I call a high-flyer! Not to mention on the same page: Major and Brevet Lt.-Col. (temporary Brigadier-General) (now Colonel) R. B. Worgan, CSI, CVO, DSO, IA. The latter - at right - was in the Prince of Wales's entourage, and shot a tiger (attributed to the Prince, who missed). Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 16 July , 2017 Share Posted 16 July , 2017 Dear GWFs, As an aside, I found a picture of Major (later Colonel) Valentine Patrick Terrel Vivian, CMG, CBE, (1886-1969). Actually an Indian Police officer, at the time of his resignation from the IARO, he had served with the Indian Army in Turkey and Palestine - and had served in the Department of Criminal Intelligence at Simla, and retired from the Indian Police in 1925. He became the vice-chief of MI6, and selected Kim Philby, the double agent, causing great harm... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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