Guide to Sporrans (continued)

[gordon92]

Gordon Highlanders:

The battalion uniform distinctions were very few in the Regiment that emerged from the 1881 amalgamation of the 75th Stirlingshire and 92nd Gordon Highlanders. Examples: Only the pipe major of the 2nd Bn wore a large thistle star with a "XCII" in the center on the top of his Baldrick belt, and the sporrans of the two pipe majors were of slightly different patterns. The 75th went into the Highland outfit dutifully but not entirely quietly as evidenced by a crudely etched epitaph authored by a 75th soldier left outside Floriana Barracks, Malta dated 30 June1881: "Here lies the poor old Seventy-Fifth, But, under God's protection, They'll rise again in kilt and hose........We go to bed the seventy-Fifth And rise the Ninety-Twa's."

Broken into several messages because of 100K limitation.

Sporran that was worn by drummers, bandsmen, and ORs. This photo is of a drummer who appears to have donned a full scarf plaid for the photographer, but he would wear a fly plaid on parade.

Worn by WOs and Sgts.

Worn by officers in undress orders and in some orders of full dress (e.g., marching order, guard mounting).

continued

[gordon92]

Gordon Highlanders (continued)

Worn by officers in full dress review order and levee dress; also worn by drum majors.

Worn by pipers of both Bns through the 1930s.

continued

[gordon92]

Gordon Highlanders (continued)

Worn by Pipe Major of 1st Bn. This fine figure is PM George MacLellan who served before, during, and after the Great War. He is probably the best known PM of his time and was a renowned composer of pipe music.

Worn by Pipe Major of 2nd Bn. This is PM MacLeod at Agra 1912. The sporran cantle design varied from time-to-time but always had three tassels. Note the thistle star on the Baldrick between the shoulder cord and buckle worn only by PM of 2nd Bn.

[4thGordons]

I'll have to go an dig it out but I have one picture (dated 1913) of a Gordon's piper with a very different form of sporran cantle

Watch this space!

Here it is. Dated 1913 in what appears to be contemporary hand on the reverse, plaid brooch is different also.

Medals appear to be ? (? looks oval) and QSA with quite a few bars (battle).

Chris

[gordon92]

I'll have to go an dig it out but I have one picture (dated 1913) of a Gordon's piper with a very different form of sporran cantle

Watch this space!

Here it is. Dated 1913 in what appears to be contemporary hand on the reverse, plaid brooch is different also.

Medals appear to be ? (? looks oval) and QSA with quite a few bars (battle).

Chris

That is an interesting and perplexing photo of a piper, Chris, who is definitely some kind of Gordon Highlander. The plaid brooch is similar to one worn in the first photo below c1950s. I am stumped by the sporran. However, I would opine that this is not a regular soldier for several reasons: 1) The plaid is rather sloppily secured by the brooch; 2) The sergeant chevrons are too low on the right arm; and 3) The metal furniture on the crossbelt and the waistbelt plate are definitely not the patterns worn by pipers of either regular Bn. I think this is a piper of one of the volunteer battalions pre-1908 or possibly (less likely) a carryover into one of the TF Bns post-1908. A number of men from the VBs did opt to serve in S. Africa; so, it is unsurprising that this mystery piper is wearing a QSA. How sure are you of the 1913 dating?

While I may have your attention, I have a question for you regarding the second photo below. Its written annotation on the front in period ink says "Capt Johnston Aberdeen Cavaliers." Have you ever heard of the Aberdeen Cavaliers?

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

I hope that this excellent and informative thread will be placed amongst the classics when it is finished.

I enclose a Sgt of the Seaforths with regret that it is out of sequence.

[gordon92]

I hope that this excellent and informative thread will be placed amongst the classics when it is finished.

I enclose a Sgt of the Seaforths with regret that it is out of sequence.

Thanks for posting the Seaforth Sgt, FROGSMILE. In almost all respects his uniform is what one would expect for a Sgt of the Seaforth Highlanders including the sporran. The anomaly is the solid glengarry; the Seaforth wore one of red-green-white dicing except, of course, by pipers, and this man is definitely not a piper; further I am sure this photo pre-dates the simplified glengarry issued during the War. I think we have to consign this to just one of those strange expediencies that happens in the photographer's studio. Perhaps, the Sgt came to the studio with his feather bonnet, which would obscure a portion of his face; the photgrapher may have persuaded him to change into this piper's glengarry that possibly was the only one in the photgrapher's inventory. The shown glengarry is undersized for his head, so the foregoing explanation seems plausible.

Minor point as an aside: The Seaforth Highlanders always referred to themselves in abbreviated form as "the Seaforth."

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks for posting the Seaforth Sgt, FROGSMILE. In almost all respects his uniform is what one would expect for a Sgt of the Seaforth Highlanders including the sporran. The anomaly is the solid glengarry; the Seaforth wore one of red-green-white dicing except, of course, by pipers, and this man is definitely not a piper; further I am sure this photo pre-dates the simplified glengarry issued during the War. I think we have to consign this to just one of those strange expediencies that happens in the photographer's studio. Perhaps, the Sgt came to the studio with his feather bonnet, which would obscure a portion of his face; the photgrapher may have persuaded him to change into this piper's glengarry that possibly was the only one in the photgrapher's inventory. The shown glengarry is undersized for his head, so the foregoing explanation seems plausible.

Minor point as an aside: The Seaforth Highlanders always referred to themselves in abbreviated form as "the Seaforth."

Yes I was aware that the Seaforth wore a diced glengarry cap. Personally I do not believe that he is wearing a photographers prop. In my experience of the British infantry at first hand a photographer would not persuade a Sergeant of the Line to do anything but quail in trepidation.

[gordon92]

The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders:

As arguably the most homogenous of the Highland regiments, the Camerons had practically no differences in dress or kit between its two regular battalions; the only difference of which I am aware is that there were no personal pipe banners in the 1st Bn. Rather than being one of those 1881 "shotgun marriages," the Cameron Highlanders spawned their own 2nd Bn in 1897. As the only single Bn regiment in the line infantry (it's a complicated story on how that happened back in 1881), the War Office in 1897 originally wanted to make the Camerons into a 3rd Bn of Scots Guards. Instead, through the influence of Donald Cameron of Lochiel, MP and chief of Clan Cameron, as well as the insistence of the Queen, the Cameron Highlanders survived to became a two Bn regiment.

Sporran worn by ORs, bandsmen, and Sgts

Worn by oficers in undress orders; differs from ORs sporran only in quality of materials including a silver St. Andrew badge.

continued

[gordon92]

Cameron Highlanders (continued)

Worn by officers in full dress review order and levee dress.

Worn by pipers other than PM.

Worn by pipe major; photo taken after Cameron pipers were authorized to wear Royal Stuart tartan.

A general note on mess dress: In the five kilted regiments, officers would usually wear the levee-dress sporran in full mess dress (also called ball dress by some regiments except in the Camerons where it meant something else); it was not unheard of though to see undress sporrans worn. Mess undress in Highland regiments referred to the mess jacket and waistcoat worn with trews.

[gordon92]

Yes I was aware that the Seaforth wore a diced glengarry cap. Personally I do not believe that he is wearing a photographers prop. In my experience of the British infantry at first hand a photographer would not persuade a Sergeant of the Line to do anything but quail in trepidation.

I defer to you on this point.

[FROGSMILE]

A rather immaculate Band Sergeant Major of the Camerons.

[FROGSMILE]

And a Cameron in white drill order (shell) jacket.

[gordon92]

A rather immaculate Band Sergeant Major of the Camerons.

Excellent image...what a fine figure!. Any idea on the date?

Your second image of the Pte in white drill jacket is definitely 1903-1914 and could be a soldier of either Bn since this jacket was worn at home and on foreign service.

[FROGSMILE]

Excellent image...what a fine figure!. Any idea on the date?

Your second image of the Pte in white drill jacket is definitely 1903-1914 and could be a soldier of either Bn since this jacket was worn at home and on foreign service.

The Band Sergeant Major is wearing correct dress according to the 1900 Regulations and appears to be wearing two medals from the period before WW1 so I imagine that the photo was from the same period as the soldier in the white drill jacket.

The leather belt worn by the latter appears to be from the 1903 Bandolier Equipment.

[4thGordons]

That is an interesting and perplexing photo of a piper, Chris, who is definitely some kind of Gordon Highlander. The plaid brooch is similar to one worn in the first photo below c1950s. I am stumped by the sporran. However, I would opine that this is not a regular soldier for several reasons: 1) The plaid is rather sloppily secured by the brooch; 2) The sergeant chevrons are too low on the right arm; and 3) The metal furniture on the crossbelt and the waistbelt plate are definitely not the patterns worn by pipers of either regular Bn. I think this is a piper of one of the volunteer battalions pre-1908 or possibly (less likely) a carryover into one of the TF Bns post-1908. A number of men from the VBs did opt to serve in S. Africa; so, it is unsurprising that this mystery piper is wearing a QSA. How sure are you of the 1913 dating?

While I may have your attention, I have a question for you regarding the second photo below. Its written annotation on the front in period ink says "Capt Johnston Aberdeen Cavaliers." Have you ever heard of the Aberdeen Cavaliers?

Mike

Mike - I will have to hunt down the original in my collection to check but my recollection is the 1913 date is written in fountain pen in a period hand on the reverse. I do no think it is a postmark but I will check. As to how certain this makes me of the date.....?

Regarding the Aberdeen Cavaliers.... I have a copy of Donald Sinclair's 1907 work "History of the Aberdeen Volunteers" so I can look it up -- this covers most of the volunteer units for Aberdeen and counties of Banff and Kincardine up until 1907 so if it is an official title I would expect it to be there.

Chris

[tn.drummond]

gordon92, Frogsmile and 4th Gordons,

I have to say this is the most educative of threads and it touches on a number of areas that I am both interested in but also rather ignorant. I am struggling with some of the terminology e.g "levee dress". If possible could one of you direct me to a thread/reference or anything that can detail the different categories of Scottish service and dress uniforms of the period and of the occasions when they would be worn. I very much appreciate this will differ between regiments and battalions of those regiments but a starting point, for me, would be most helpful.

Regards

Suddery

[gordon92]

A rather immaculate Band Sergeant Major of the Camerons.

I encountered this same photo from post #37 in an old magazine I was browsing today. The caption indicates the subject is Bandmaster W Abbot with a date of 1907.

I hope this may be of interest.

[gordon92]

Mike - I will have to hunt down the original in my collection to check but my recollection is the 1913 date is written in fountain pen in a period hand on the reverse. I do no think it is a postmark but I will check. As to how certain this makes me of the date.....?

Regarding the Aberdeen Cavaliers.... I have a copy of Donald Sinclair's 1907 work "History of the Aberdeen Volunteers" so I can look it up -- this covers most of the volunteer units for Aberdeen and counties of Banff and Kincardine up until 1907 so if it is an official title I would expect it to be there.

Chris

Chris- Look forward to your feedback when you are able to look up those items.

Mike

[gordon92]

gordon92, Frogsmile and 4th Gordons,

I have to say this is the most educative of threads and it touches on a number of areas that I am both interested in but also rather ignorant. I am struggling with some of the terminology e.g "levee dress". If possible could one of you direct me to a thread/reference or anything that can detail the different categories of Scottish service and dress uniforms of the period and of the occasions when they would be worn. I very much appreciate this will differ between regiments and battalions of those regiments but a starting point, for me, would be most helpful.

Regards

Suddery

Suddery,

The best general description of orders of dress that I know of for this period is on pp. 15-16 of Dress Regulations for the Army, 1911. If you do not have access to this document, I could scan the two pages and post them. Let me know. The particulars of the dress of the Scottish regiments constitute a minefield. To quote David Murray regarding Scottish regimental dress "...there are no experts, only students." One would need the Standing Orders of each regiment for detailed descriptions, and I doubt even these would provide the full picture.

Regarding levee dress, this would be worn by officers attending a levee, i.e., for presentation at Court to the Sovereign. In the kilted regiments, the only difference between full dress review order and levee dress is the substitution of buckle shoes and full hose for the spats, highland shoes, and hose tops worn in review order; nonetheless, there are exceptions as always, e.g., The Black Watch and Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders wore a different sporran in levee dress. See post #27 in this thread for a Gordon Highlanders officer in levee dress. In English, Welsh, Irish, and Scottish trewed regiments, it is my understanding that the uniform for review order and levee dress was the same. However, on the latter point I am probably overstepping my expertise. Perhaps, someone else could offer a better explanation on this last matter.

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

I encountered this same photo from post #37 in an old magazine I was browsing today. The caption indicates the subject is Bandmaster W Abbot with a date of 1907.

I hope this may be of interest.

Yes, thank you. There is an excellent full size scan of that photo in Flickr.

[tn.drummond]

"The best general description of orders of dress that I know of for this period is on pp. 15-16 of Dress Regulations for the Army, 1911. If you do not have access to this document, I could scan the two pages and post them"

Mike

Thanks very much for the time you have taken, most helpful. David Murray's quote comes as a relief. A scan of the Reg's you quote would be of great interest.

I've a number of 'sporrans' to post but I'll wait until I am clearer as to what they are as I don't want to interrupt your flow.

Best Regards

Suddery

[gordon92]

"The best general description of orders of dress that I know of for this period is on pp. 15-16 of Dress Regulations for the Army, 1911. If you do not have access to this document, I could scan the two pages and post them"

Mike

Thanks very much for the time you have taken, most helpful. David Murray's quote comes as a relief. A scan of the Reg's you quote would be of great interest.

I've a number of 'sporrans' to post but I'll wait until I am clearer as to what they are as I don't want to interrupt your flow.

Best Regards

Suddery

Here you are, Suddery. I hope these are readable for you. These 1911 Dress Regs are for officers but much is also applicable to ORs.

Mike

[tn.drummond]

Here you are, Suddery. I hope these are readable for you. These 1911 Dress Regs are for officers but much is also applicable to ORs.

Excellent Mike, many thanks.

Suddery

[gordon92]

Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders:

The 1881 pairing of the 91st Argyllshire Highlanders (trews, shakos) with the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders (kilted) produced Princess Louise's (Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders). Most facets of the resultant uniform reflected that previously worn by the 93rd including the Sutherland (Government) tartan and the red-white dicing on the feather bonnets and glengarries. The badges were designed by Princess Louise (daughter of the Queen, wife of the Duke of Argyll). Each battalion had a definite preference to be referred to by its pre-1881 numerical designation. The only uniform differences between battalions of which I am aware are: 1) the Boar's head badge worn on pipers' Baldrick belts in the 91st while a wildcat of Sutherland badge was worn analogously by 93rd pipers; and 2) the 91st military band wore red hackles while the 93rd band wore white hackles. Officers and pipers of the 91st continued to wear their Cairngorm stone plaid brooches for at least a few years post-1881.

Split into multiple messages.

ORs sporran, the "swinging six."

Sgts (right) wore the badger head sporran; drum major on left.

Bandsman's sporran.

continued