Tell England - Movie 1931

[PMHart]

What I do hope is that some of you come along to this fantastic Gallipoli Association Conference. The details are below. It should be a great day out in Birmingham!!!

Liar Pete

:

The Gallipoli Association is holding its inaugural one-day conference on Saturday, 11 August, at the Lords Knights Suite, Tally Ho Conference and Banqueting Centre, Birmingham. The Conference Centre is located in Pershore Rd, Edgbaston, Birmingham BR5 7RN.

Focusing entirely on the Gallipoli campaign, the conference will feature an impressive programme of guest speakers, a Question and Answer panel comprising Gallipoli experts, plus displays, books and merchandise. A number of well-known military authors will be on hand to sign their books. Here is an excellent opportunity to learn more about this fascinating campaign.

It doesn’t matter if you are not a member of the Gallipoli Association — everybody will be made welcome. The conference registration fee of £25 includes all events, together with morning and afternoon tea and a generous lunch. An optional three-course evening meal at the same venue is available in the evening for an extra £25. The booking of accommodation will be left to individuals to arrange according to their personal preferences.

Guest speakers

Michael Hickey — The Men of Gallipoli

Michael is a retired Colonel with a distinguished service record. He is also the popular and respected historian of the Gallipoli Association and the author of several books. Michael’s address will look at the compelling human drama behind Gallipoli, drawing on personalities from across the broad spectrum of the services.

Peter Hart — The French at Gallipoli

Peter is oral historian at the Imperial War Museum and the author of several books. Peter believes the French are the forgotten men of Gallipoli and will attempt to correct this situation when he focuses on this important aspect of the campaign.

Stephen Chambers — Gallipoli through a camera’s lens

An acknowledged military historian, author and battlefield guide, Stephen is also webmaster of the Gallipoli Association. His collection of quality images from the campaign will be presented and brought to life by drawing on his deep knowledge of all areas of the conflict.

Christopher Pugsley — The Gallipoli Campaign: valid gamble or forlorn hope?

Our final speaker is Adjunct Professor of Humanities at Canterbury University, Christchurch, a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society and recipient of Distinguished Alumni Award from the University of Waikato, NZ. A former NZ Army Officer, Chris is presently a Senior Lecturer at Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst. He was written extensively on Gallipoli and is regarded as a foremost authority on the subject. Chris will discuss the effectiveness of the planning and the tactical consequences of both the landings and the August offensive. Don’t miss this final opportunity to hear from an expert in the field before his imminent return to NZ.

For more information and to register for the Gallipoli Association Conference contact Simon Kleinig: simon.kleinig@windingtrack.com

[RobL]

It should be a great day out in Birmingham!!!

A contradictory statement, surely?!

Seriously though i'm looking forward to (hopefully) attending the conference and watching 'Tell England' again. The fact that the men landing at Gallipoli genuinely did think the Turkish had machine guns, and in a sizeable number, is surely testament to the great skill of the defenders. The (myth?) of Germans thinking the British had more machine guns than they actually did at Mons being reversed less than a year later is rather ironic too

[michaeldr]

WHen YOU Michael provide the original sources from Turkish archives of Maxim machine guns (not Nordenfelts) at V Beach - missed by Kenan, Sahin and Haluk in all their years of hard study as opposed to Ed's relatively quick trawl through - then I will be convinced. I still have no idea how you can engage in an argument about Turkish machine guns when you have no idea what-so-ever of their organsiation or theoretical deployment - it is staggering!

Confused? So am I,

for as a layman trying to make sense of this, I find that the information on offer from the experts, seems to be contradictory.

I also feel that a discussion on the GWF is the right way to raise the various alternatives accounts on offer, and to see if any clarification can be obtained thereby.

In post No.20 above you say

“not every regiment had a company - including the 26th Regiment!”

I interpret that as meaning that you think none of the 26th's battalions had MGs

Whereas (see post No.16) I am told that two of its battalions did have Mgs.

Sahin Akdogan “pulled out the Turkish official history and the order of battle for the units of the Ottoman 9th division that was defending the Peninsula. Of note is the fact that the battalion defending the at the toe of the Peninsula was not equipped with a machine gun detachment, though the other two battalions of the 26th regiment were”

Have I at least understood your position correctly?

[PMHart]

Yes.

Liar Pete

[Guest]

Interesting discussion in 'another place' that will be of interest to any reading this thread. http://frontforum.westernfrontassociation.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=784

Mike

[michaeldr]

In post No.20 above you say

“not every regiment had a company - including the 26th Regiment!”

I interpret that as meaning that you think none of the 26th's battalions had MGs

Whereas (see post No.16) I am told that two of its battalions did have Mgs.

Sahin Akdogan “pulled out the Turkish official history and the order of battle for the units of the Ottoman 9th division that was defending the Peninsula. Of note is the fact that the battalion defending the at the toe of the Peninsula was not equipped with a machine gun detachment, though the other two battalions of the 26th regiment were”

Have I at least understood your position correctly?

Yes.

Liar Pete

Thank you for your clarification

[PMHart]

No problem chum!

Liar Pete

[michaeldr]

this is what Bill said on the other thread (post No.6, 30OCT2005)

I have had this discussion with Kenan Celik and with another local expert, Sahin Akdogan, a number of times. Indeed Sahin and I were talking over this again only a week ago. He pulled out the Turkish official history and the order of battle for the units of the Ottoman 9th division that was defending the Peninsula. Of note is the fact that the battalion defending the beaches at the toe of the Peninsula was not equipped with a machine gun detachment, though the other two battalions of the 26th regiment were

Regarding the OoB which Sahin Akdogan pulled out from the Turkish official history to show Bill in Oct 2005, I think that this is the explanation,

and it was probably the Organization Chart illustrating the 5th Army's make-up as at 19 April 1915

It indicates a machine gun company shared by two of the 9th Div's regiments (25th & 27th) , but not by its third regiment (26th).

Note;

Bill's post on the other thread seems to have clouded the issue slightly by referring to the three battalions of the 26th Regt..

When in fact, I think it should have referred to the three regiments of the 9th Div.

[PMHart]

Yes!

Liar Pete

[MichaelBully]

Only just heard about 'Tell England' -the book and the film !

Found the on line text of the book

Regards

Michael Bully

Edit: Oops ! Forgot to post the link to the on line version of said book

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/15033

[Angrybudgie]

I understand that the film is available as a free download from more than one place online. here are two that I found:

http://torrentz.eu/te/tell+england+1931-q

and http://www.watchfreemovies.ch/watch-movies/1931/watch-tell-england-159478/

hope that helps.

elizabeth

[kenneth505]

The Gallipoli Association is holding its inaugural one-day conference on Saturday, 11 August, at the Lords Knights Suite, Tally Ho Conference and Banqueting Centre, Birmingham. The Conference Centre is located in Pershore Rd, Edgbaston, Birmingham BR5 7RN.

Are there any plans to obtain transcripts of the talks? Repost here on the forum? I'd be happy to asist if needed and someone wanted to send files. Wish I could make it for this but will have to get my thrills digitally.

[mcderms]

On 07/07/2012 at 19:40, RobL said:

I'm convinced there weren't machine guns there - just very good rifle fire discipline used by the Turks, and the Nordenfelts as described which are automatic weapons and could be mistaken for machine guns. No Turkish maxims were captured (boxes could mean anything, and perhaps could be from the Nordenfelts?) and would have been proudly displayed like captured MG's were on the Western Front, and also the Nordenfelt now on display in the Tower of London. First hand accounts are frequently proved wrong, the rapid, accurate rifle fire of dozens of Turks could easily be confused for machine gun fire in the heat of battle, especially with ten or so Maxims on the River Clyde blazing away at the same time

 

No one who's ever fired or been fired on by a maxim gun is going to mistake disciplined rifle fire or a Nordenfelt for that. Sorry: these were experienced and professional soldiers who would have encountered the maxim in training or previous action. Even the much believed story that the Germans thought that the OCs 'mad minute' was machine gun fire has been shown to be anecdotal at best.

 

Also the Nordenfelt - which was present as well - requires a lot more set up than a maxim. Is there any evidence of prepared positions for these in the Turkish trench lines? I don't recall any but it's been a long time since my last visit.

 

Anyway, so people can make up their own minds:

 

Nordenfelt firing - 

 

Maxim firing - 

 

Mad Minute (at 4:46) - 

 

Also there's a copy of the movie on YouTube now: 

 

[keithmroberts]

"No one who's ever fired or been fired on by a maxim gun is going to mistake disciplined rifle fire or a Nordenfelt for that. Sorry: these were experienced and professional soldiers who would have encountered the maxim in training or previous action"

 

Surely most of these troops were going into action for the first time.  Even the men of 29th Division (with their  regular battalions)  had been pulled together from policing and barracks around the Empire and would be brought up to strength initially by a mixture of reservists of varying experience, and new recruits before heading overseas.  They became experienced combat soldiers very quickly and of course would hear lots of machine gun fire during the landings from the guns mounted on the boats used to land them which would surely echo around somewhat, especially at Anzac, but as Rob mentions the maxims on the River Clyde would make plenty of relevant noise. The main evidence seems to lie in the Turkish records which actually show where their machine guns were being held in reserve, and yes, there were prepared positions - some of which were apparently used for Nordenfeldts but which woiuld have been just a suitable for maxims had they not been in reserve. This thread (and its a long read), also holds several better researched responses that my poor brain can offer.