MichaelBully Posted 22 May , 2012 Share Posted 22 May , 2012 Hmm yes I don't think that I would have 'liked' Vera Brittain, whilst Winifred Holtby seemed to have been far more endearing. The success of 'Testament of Youth' has led to further work such as 'Chronicle of Youth' ( Vera 's diary) and the 'Letters From A Lost Generation' being published, i.e. source material which can be used to cross reference 'Testament of Youth' . Quite a few people aren't just taking 'Testament of Youth' at face value but want more information. I have also gone to the NA and read war service records of officers mentioned in 'Testament of Youth' and feel that the latter does stand up well . Vera Brittain was a feminist, and we can imagine that she would have liked other women's writings to have been taken seriously. So again we go back to the point that it might have been best to have kept the TV series of 'Testament of Youth' as the dramatisation to watch, and taken another text written by a woman about their Great War experiences for the basis of a new film. Regards, Michael Bully I usually steer well clear of VB threads, as I'm a very superficial reader, and have to admit to disliking her (there, hang me if you will!). But as an 'average' reader, I tend to think that it is taken by many as an objective account and a factual history, and the majority of readers take it at face value without reading round or beyond it. When transferred to film or TV, that slant becomes even stronger. VBs experiences are now seen as that of the 'typical' VAD ... Of course, if looking for the typical VAD, there's so little to compare it with - it would be a real struggle to find something else to use as a strong foundation. And I think that takes us back to post 8 Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 22 May , 2012 Share Posted 22 May , 2012 Wasn't there some err, how do I put it ? scandal regarding Edwards death? I will leave it to others to elaborate further....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose of picardy Posted 22 May , 2012 Share Posted 22 May , 2012 Sue, how can you? ( just kidding....) BobG, Bostridge's biography relates how Vera found out much later from his commanding officer that Edward was about to face possible charges for "intimate fraternization" with a lower rank. There is a possibility that he tried not to return from battle so to speak by choice or due to a desperate state of mind. (BTW, the quotation marks above are mine. I don't have access to official documents and terminology! Her son states she had no qualms at all about Edward's possible homosexuality and always regarded him as a hero. The commanding officer had feelings that Edward might have committed suicide or been reckless, but Vera refused to believe that part. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Sue, how can you? ( just kidding....) I always view her as such a prig, before, during and after the war, but I do suspect that she WAS fairly typical of nursing VADs of her time. And I find it hard to forgive her the comments about Elizabeth Ann Dowse on the Britannic. But mainly I regret that the book has eclipsed the work of the trained, professional nurse during the Great War and frequently pushed VADs into the position of sole carer. That, however, is not Vera Brittain's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 23 May , 2012 Admin Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Like Michael, I don't think I would have got on with Vera at all; T of Y is written from her 1930s burgeoning pacifism standpoint and she comes accross as humourless and very political. In her diary she is more fun loving and also jingoistic at times,which is in direct contrast to her writings in T of Y. I am sure she regarded Roland as the love of her life then in the 1930s she fell voliently in love with her American publisher, and commented in her diary that she had fallen in love with 2 men and married neither. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 ... I tend to think that it is taken by many as an objective account and a factual history, and the majority of readers take it at face value without reading round or beyond it. When transferred to film or TV, that slant becomes even stronger. VBs experiences are now seen as that of the 'typical' VAD ... Of course, if looking for the typical VAD, there's so little to compare it with - it would be a real struggle to find something else to use as a strong foundation. ... Absolutely agree. VB intrigues me in terms of the parallels and differences with my grandmother. My grandmother also lost her fiancee and her brother, and also served for a while as a VAD. I think the similarities end there and I doubt the two would have got on had they met. My grandmother didn't appear to get on well with being a VAD and gave it up after about 5 months to become a schoolmistress. I believe she also reacted in a more 'stiff upper lip' and less emotional way to her loss than VB did. She married my grandfather after a whirlwind romance some 15 months after the fiancee was killed. However, a picture of the fiancee hung on the wall of my grandparents' house throughout the 33 years of my grandparents' marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excelsior1 Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Personally, as someone who isn't familiar with Vera Brittain's work, but was was thoroughly impressed by the Lyn Macdonald's "Roses of No Man's Land" and Mary Borden's "The Forbidden Zone", I am certainly planning to watch it and will get hold of the book as soon as possible. I just hope it's better than the lacklustre (in my opinion) Birdsong adaptation: great book, but couldn't be "fagged" to watch the tv version after the first few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 In respect of Edward Brittain : Vera had seen too much of war to accept the official version of Edward Brittain's death and felt that Colonel Charles Hudson, Edward's commanding officer, had not told her the truth when she met Colonel Hudson whilst he was recovering from wounds in a London hospital in 1918 . Vera insinuated that Colonel Hudson had taken the aclaim for Edward's possibly brave conduct at the Asagio Plateau on 15th June 1918, where he was killed in action. On 9th July 1933 , they met again at Colonel Hudson's request following the publication of 'Testament of Youth', and this is when Vera seemed to have been informed about the possible charges against Edward. The 1996 Paul Berry/Mark Bostridge biography contains some interesting material on this. Mark Bostridge edited an anthology 'Lives For Sale-Biographers' Tales' -and contributed a piece called 'Ipplepen 269' about his research into Edward's death (published 2004). Colonel Hudson's son Miles Hudson wrote a biography of his father 'Soldier, Poet, Rebel' (2007) which has a few pages on the matter. As far as I know it is Vera's son John Caitlin in 'Family Quarter-Vera Brittain and her family' (1987) that first raised the possilibity of Edward Brittain being homosexual in print. Personally I think that Mark Bostridge managed to uncover a great deal about the incident and credit is due to him for doing so. Regards, Michael Bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Hello Sue- I wonder how Faith Moulson ,( the VAD with Vera in France in 1918- called 'Hope Milroy' in 'Testament of Youth' ) is going to be portrayed in 'Testament of Youth'- the movie? She was depicted as being rather eccentric in the TV series! Regards as always, Michael I always view her as such a prig, before, during and after the war, but I do suspect that she WAS fairly typical of nursing VADs of her time. And I find it hard to forgive her the comments about Elizabeth Ann Dowse on the Britannic. But mainly I regret that the book has eclipsed the work of the trained, professional nurse during the Great War and frequently pushed VADs into the position of sole carer. That, however, is not Vera Brittain's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Yes Mary Borden's 'The Forbidden Zone' is very moving. Personally, as someone who isn't familiar with Vera Brittain's work, but was was thoroughly impressed by the Lyn Macdonald's "Roses of No Man's Land" and Mary Borden's "The Forbidden Zone", I am certainly planning to watch it and will get hold of the book as soon as possible. I just hope it's better than the lacklustre (in my opinion) Birdsong adaptation: great book, but couldn't be "fagged" to watch the tv version after the first few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Hello Sue- I wonder how Faith Moulson ,( the VAD with Vera in France in 1918- called 'Hope Milroy' in 'Testament of Youth' ) is going to be portrayed in 'Testament of Youth'- the movie? She was depicted as being rather eccentric in the TV series! Regards as always, Michael Yes, they did go a bit overboard with her character. But Vera always suggested that Hope/Faith was rather different from her trained colleagues - a little bit of a loose cannon, and willing to challenge the rules and authority, which was what helped to cement the friendship. Maybe the TV portrayal was a little over the top to try and make her stand out, which it certainly did! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 23 May , 2012 Share Posted 23 May , 2012 Well Vera retained the friendship of Hope/Faith in real life after 'Testament of Youth' was published ! Again it's back to the question of condensing 'Testament of Youth' into a movie ....some characters will have to go, others will have to be turned into either villains or eccentrics to keep the attention span of the average movie goer. Michael I Yes, they did go a bit overboard with her character. But Vera always suggested that Hope/Faith was rather different from her trained colleagues - a little bit of a loose cannon, and willing to challenge the rules and authority, which was what helped to cement the friendship. Maybe the TV portrayal was a little over the top to try and make her stand out, which it certainly did! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 24 May , 2012 Share Posted 24 May , 2012 I always view her as such a prig, before, during and after the war. A prig is not what has come to mind for the people I have met who knew Vera, not least Paul Berry, co-author with Mark Bostridge of her biography and her original literary executor. Deeply concened, but approachable is nearer the mark, as witnessed by the numbers who readily subscribed to her Letters to Peace Lovers throughout WW2. Another example is her description (in England's Hour) of trying to establish a corner of the crowded Peace Pledge Union offices in which to work, among other things, on the PPU Food Relief Campaign - a forerunner of Oxfam. The only spare space she could find was a disused bathroom (the buiding had at one period been used as a hostel), so she got a board, put it over the bath, placed her typewriter on top, and was in business. Priggish? And for those who have expressed concern about her activity during WW2, exactly which aspect of the Food Relief Campaign for the starving children of occupied Europe, which she chaired throughout the war, was objectionable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose of picardy Posted 24 May , 2012 Share Posted 24 May , 2012 I thought one endearing characteristic about Vera was the interest she took in clothes; that is not what you would expect from the stereotypical view of her. I do think she makes the people she writes about come to life- I am not sure if you can trust the portraits to be free of bias, but they do make an impression. I have retained an impression of Malta as a sort of paradise via her description! ( I have never been there..) She makes you want to know more about the people she writes about even when that pursuit leads you to accounts that give a different view. I maintain that nobody is going to think that her experience is typical if the filmmakers depict it as she did ( or unless they insert statements implying she is typical into characters' mouths). I always knew even as a young person that Vera was much more dramatic and sensitive than most. What memoirs featuring typical VADs or regular nurses do you think should be filmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2012 Share Posted 24 May , 2012 A prig is not what has come to mind for the people I have met who knew Vera, not least Paul Berry, co-author with Mark Bostridge of her biography and her original literary executor. Deeply concened, but approachable is nearer the mark, as witnessed by the numbers who readily subscribed to her Letters to Peace Lovers throughout WW2. As I said, that's how I view her from being a simple reader of books - a personal opinion. Analysis of, and ideas about other people's personality is a subjective matter, influenced by many things, particularly education and social status. And I totally accept that I might not see her in a similar way to Berry and Bostridge - it would surprise me if I did. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 May , 2012 Share Posted 24 May , 2012 What memoirs featuring typical VADs or regular nurses do you think should be filmed? Following on from post 24, I can't think of anything else from the British angle that would ever be suitable for the purpose. Film and TV productions today seem to require all the drama, emotion, action and death that can be mustered. To go for reality alone wouldn't fit the bill at all. Sue Edit: Having another think about it, perhaps something that would translate well into film would be 'Not so Quiet ... Stepdaughters of War' a fictionalised account of the war work of Evadne Price (written under the name Helen Zenna Smith). The book is about VAD ambulance drivers rather than nurses, and very black, but maybe it contains the necessary ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 24 May , 2012 Share Posted 24 May , 2012 Come on MB, as a writer Vera Brittain constructed a personnae for herself in 'Testament of Youth'. A vast amount of autobiographical writing does so. Readers have a right to reject the personality that is presented. That is a hazard of writing a book placing oneself at centre stage. When I first read 'Testament of Youth' I came way admiring Vera Brittain but at the same time thinking that she wasn't quite human. Her struggle to get to university, the nursing experiences, the devastating grief, the humilation by the flappers at Oxford after the War, and the evolution of her friendship with Winifred Holtby and her gradual sense of self confidence, have won Vera a great deal of respect. But when reading 'Testament', I wished that Vera would have an affair or get drunk , just do something a bit naughty. In some ways I have got to prefer 'Chronicle of Youth' because it lacks the self-consciousness of 'Testament of Youth'.....yes and I know 'Chronicle of Youth' would not have been published unless 'Testament of Youth' had been a success. Of course people who knew her independently of her writing have come away with a different view. Yet Vera's son John Catlin's book ' Family Quartet' also has to be considered if you want cite accounts written by people who knew Vera Brittain, a text which is not always complimentary. Regards, Michael Bully A prig is not what has come to mind for the people I have met who knew Vera, not least Paul Berry, co-author with Mark Bostridge of her biography and her original literary executor. Deeply concened, but approachable is nearer the mark, as witnessed by the numbers who readily subscribed to her Letters to Peace Lovers throughout WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 3 June , 2012 Share Posted 3 June , 2012 Been thinking what music will be used in 'Testament of Youth'-the movie. Would it be possible to use any music that Edward Brittain wrote ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 14 June , 2012 Share Posted 14 June , 2012 Just found another article on line about 'Testament of Youth' film http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/cannes-film-festival/9278259/Cannes-2012-BBC-to-dramatise-life-of-WW1-writer-Vera-Brittain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 9 August , 2012 Share Posted 9 August , 2012 Could be that the backlash against 'Testament of Youth ' has started. http://www.newcriterion.com/posts.cfm/The-Empire-of-Feeling-Is-Pacifist-6802 Haven't really studied the piece yet so not commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 9 August , 2012 Share Posted 9 August , 2012 Rather than yet another remake what about a film about Elsie Knocker and Mairi Chisholm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 12 August , 2012 Share Posted 12 August , 2012 Well yes -perhaps that two backlashes are emerging. One from people who distrust Vera Brittain's objectivity when writing about the Great War, and another from people who essentially rate 'Testament of Youth' ( to different degrees) but would prefer to have another Great War text written by a woman turned into a film.Especially as such a strong dramatisation exists of 'Testmament of Youth' already. Regards Michael Bully Rather than yet another remake what about a film about Elsie Knocker and Mairi Chisholm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 12 August , 2012 Share Posted 12 August , 2012 Rather than yet another remake what about a film about Elsie Knocker and Mairi Chisholm? There's a feature film due to be released next year about them, titled 'Four Saints' though I worry about its content and accuracy. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 12 August , 2012 Share Posted 12 August , 2012 Hi Sue Thank you for the update - I had a look at the IMDB for the title 'Four Saints' and found this ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1729646/fullcredits#cast It will be interesting to see what emerges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 12 August , 2012 Share Posted 12 August , 2012 I'm embarrassed to say this thread is the first I've heard of Elsie Knocker and Mairi Chisholm. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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