Hugh Pattenden Posted 17 May , 2012 Share Posted 17 May , 2012 Hello, I've been researching the following chap and wondered if anyone knew anything of him - am always amazed at what this forum produces! Second Lieutenant Islay Ferrier Burns, 97th Company, Machine Gun Corps (Infantry), killed on the Belgian coast 14th May 1917. I have a few things on him, and have done CWGC, school records etc. Many thanks, Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 May , 2012 Share Posted 17 May , 2012 Hugh, Islay Burns was killed in action on 10th July 1917, which is the date of the Battle of the Dunes. I normally point people researching the Battle of the Dunes to this topic: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41843&st=0 but it was you who actually started it! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted 17 May , 2012 Share Posted 17 May , 2012 He has an entry on DE RUVIGNY'S ROLL OF HONOUR 1914-1918. Worth a look if not viewed previously. Regards, corona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Pattenden Posted 17 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2012 Thanks. That was a long time ago, Steve! I'd completely forgotten about it! Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 18 May , 2012 Share Posted 18 May , 2012 Just a small snippet. In the University of London OTC Roll of War Service, it says that he was buried at Coxyde. Presumably, his grave was later lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Pattenden Posted 18 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2012 Interesting, thanks. Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 1 April , 2020 Share Posted 1 April , 2020 (edited) Researching this man as part of my ongoing MMGS research. He was originally a Gunner service number 301 with the Motor Machine Gun Service. He served in France with 10th MMG Battery. By the date of his commission in early 1917 it's most likely he was one of those selected for officer training when the Battery was disbanded in November 1916 - most other ranks were transferred to Heavy Branch. Prior to enlistment he had been a member of the London University Officer Training Corps, and was just starting an engineering course at City and Guilds College, so most likely explains an interest in motorcycles. Though he has no know grave he is remembered on his parents gravestone in Ascension Parish Burial Ground, Cambridge. Newspaper notice of his death noted he was killed in the early hours of 11th July. Edited 1 April , 2020 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 1 April , 2020 Admin Share Posted 1 April , 2020 1 hour ago, david murdoch said: Newspaper notice of his death noted he was killed in the early hour of 11th July. Although the war diary seems to be clear that he was killed on the 10th ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 1 April , 2020 Share Posted 1 April , 2020 (edited) http://ilkleyremembers.blogspot.com/2019/02/2nd-lieutenant-islay-ferrier-burns-97th.html School photograph Ilkley Grammar School 1st XV Edited 1 April , 2020 by ilkley remembers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 1 April , 2020 Share Posted 1 April , 2020 1 hour ago, ilkley remembers said: http://ilkleyremembers.blogspot.com/2019/02/2nd-lieutenant-islay-ferrier-burns-97th.html School photograph Ilkley Grammar School 1st XV I visited the blog earlier today - very well researched and written. I have added details to my soldier's file on him. He is also remembered on his parent's headstone. His father the Reverend Islay Ferrier Burns died in 1922 aged 70 - knocked off his bicycle and killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 11 hours ago, david murdoch said: I visited the blog earlier today - very well researched and written. Thanks David for the feedback and compliments as well as the details of his fathers sad fate. The entries are from a Facebook page that I started a few years ago and need editing but never seem to get round to doing it. After leaving Ilkley Grammar Burns remained in regular contact with the school and his former friends. He seems to have been a member of the Ilkley and District Motorcycle Club (it still exists incidently) which was founded in 1910. along with other pupils of the school they raced older bikes in the surrounding hills. Several went on the enlist in the MMGC including Philip Fletcher Dixon who was kia whilst serving with 4 Battery. I have postulated that it was this old school connection that encouraged Islay to transfer into the unit. I did at one time investigate a motor cycle magazine (Sadly I cannot remember its name) which had reports of its formation of the MMGC and names of enlistees although never found Burns mentioned. He did write several letters and articles for Ilkley Grammer School magazine 'The Olicanian' as well as the local Ilkley Gazette. I have his writings from The Olicanian covering the wartime years on file if they are of any use to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, ilkley remembers said: Thanks David for the feedback and compliments as well as the details of his fathers sad fate. The entries are from a Facebook page that I started a few years ago and need editing but never seem to get round to doing it. After leaving Ilkley Grammar Burns remained in regular contact with the school and his former friends. He seems to have been a member of the Ilkley and District Motorcycle Club (it still exists incidently) which was founded in 1910. along with other pupils of the school they raced older bikes in the surrounding hills. Several went on the enlist in the MMGC including Philip Fletcher Dixon who was kia whilst serving with 4 Battery. I have postulated that it was this old school connection that encouraged Islay to transfer into the unit. I did at one time investigate a motor cycle magazine (Sadly I cannot remember its name) which had reports of its formation of the MMGC and names of enlistees although never found Burns mentioned. He did write several letters and articles for Ilkley Grammer School magazine 'The Olicanian' as well as the local Ilkley Gazette. I have his writings from The Olicanian covering the wartime years on file if they are of any use to you Interested in his links to the Ilkley Motorcycle club. I have Philip Fletcher Dixon in my files. I'm researching the MMGS as a whole. He has quite a low number for the general range of known 10th MMG personnel. When the MMGS was formed the first batteries were generally formed from men already serving. However these were usually men with an interest in motorcycles who had already rushed to enlist then jumped at the chance to transfer to MMGS. December 1915 5th Battery was the first to be formed with "mostly off the street" volunteers, so their service numbers date from then. Trying to pinpoint when individual service numbers were issued can be confusing as there were still men transferring so you do see much service higher numbers but who's enlistment dates are much earlier. 10th MMG Battery was supposedly known as "Scotch Battery" as it was an attempt to form a battery entirely from Scottish recruits. This is not actually the case going by the variety of home towns of personnel. The MMGS did have a very high proportion of Scots (around 35%) given they were recruiting from the whole of the country. Known service numbers for the battery range from 250 to 600 showing they were formed from a large pool at the training centre. Most of 10th Battery ended up transferred into Heavy Branch in November 1916 when a number of batteries were disbanded to provide manpower for the Heavy Branch expansion from Companies to Battalions. This move was obviously planned and known about at least a couple of months as you can see by the war diaries changing out officers going to join heavy branch and numbers of other ranks being released for officer training. Many show up later as Tank Corps officers, but there were also a number went to Infantry regiments, Royal Flying Corps and Royal Engineers. The recruitment changed in December 1915 when "The Motorcycle" began actively recruiting likely candidates and this continued in parallel with the normal army recruitment who had a mobile team travelling around the country. The Motorcycle issues are digitalised but unfortunately not for the first half of 1915. The attached from the newspaper 11th February shows that 10th Battery was already formed by then. This photo is likely taken earlier as both men are still wearing Royal Artillery cap badges. The man riding the bike Battery Sgt Major George William Mann was 314 MMGS - he was commissioned 28/10/1915 and Killed in Action as a Captain with F Battalion Heavy Branch. Sgt Archibald James Palmer 191 actually served with 5th Battery, commissioned 6/11/1915 and later became a Major in the Tank Corps. Cpl. Philip Dixon Fletcher was No.520 MMGS Edited 2 April , 2020 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 Yes it was the 'the Motorcycle' that I searched in vain. Dixon was born in Tasmania and is named on Ilkley War Memorial so he is on the blogsite http://ilkleyremembers.blogspot.com/search?q=dixon Burns mentions in a letter dated early 1915 that he had transferred and makes reference in that and other letters to the machines that he is using. I think there have been several threads on GWF about the MMGS. This is from Spring 1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 7 hours ago, ilkley remembers said: Thanks David for the feedback and compliments as well as the details of his fathers sad fate. The entries are from a Facebook page that I started a few years ago and need editing but never seem to get round to doing it. After leaving Ilkley Grammar Burns remained in regular contact with the school and his former friends. He seems to have been a member of the Ilkley and District Motorcycle Club (it still exists incidently) which was founded in 1910. along with other pupils of the school they raced older bikes in the surrounding hills. Several went on the enlist in the MMGC including Philip Fletcher Dixon who was kia whilst serving with 4 Battery. I have postulated that it was this old school connection that encouraged Islay to transfer into the unit. I did at one time investigate a motor cycle magazine (Sadly I cannot remember its name) which had reports of its formation of the MMGC and names of enlistees although never found Burns mentioned. He did write several letters and articles for Ilkley Grammer School magazine 'The Olicanian' as well as the local Ilkley Gazette. I have his writings from The Olicanian covering the wartime years on file if they are of any use to you Dixon's friend appears to be Gunner 521 John Fox MM. They transferred together from West Riding regiment together having close service numbers there then consecutive numbers in MMGS. Fox also served in 4th Battery throughout the war. He was awarded the Military Medal in March 1918 then reported wounded and missing in April 1918. He survived and was discharged 5/4/1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 Fox and Dixon both enlisted into the Ilkley Pals Company of the 9th West Ridings in early September 1914 and subsequently transferred into the MMGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said: Fox and Dixon both enlisted into the Ilkley Pals Company of the 9th West Ridings in early September 1914 and subsequently transferred into the MMGS Yes this is fairly typical of early members of the MMGS. Many motorcycle enthusiasts rushed to enlist right at the start of the war and were then desperate to transfer when the MMGS was created. Many men in territorial battalions were not allowed to transfer. There is no mention of Burns having served elsewhere prior - he appears to have enlisted directly to MMGS in January 1915. This little group are 4th MMG before they went to France in February 1915 - still wearing Royal Field Artillery cap badges. Man on the right is Gunner 888 John Rafferty DCM. He transferred in after several months in Black Watch. Islay may have been held back a little having a longer training period with MMGS - the others would have already completed basic military training with their infantry regiments. In general the MMGS allowed friends and brothers to stay together. Edited 2 April , 2020 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 Nice photo, seem like a happy bunch. As far as Burns is concerned he appears to have tried to enlist into the Royal Navy as a Motor Cycle Maxim Auxiliary prior to applying for the MMGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 32 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said: Nice photo, seem like a happy bunch. As far as Burns is concerned he appears to have tried to enlist into the Royal Navy as a Motor Cycle Maxim Auxiliary prior to applying for the MMGS Do you have a source for that? He would only have turned 18 in September 1914. Technically you had to be 19 to serve overseas. The MMGS were pretty selective looking for experienced candidates and the average age was mid 20's .So less likely to take in underage, though some of the younger ones were from motorcycle factories and the like and had the technical knowhow. There is some evidence of rule bending - more through The Motorcycle recruitment where they were personally interviewed by the editor Geoffrey Smith. In the case of definitely underage you tend to find an older brother enlisting before or at the same time and kept together in the same battery. I don't have id for this pair but they look pretty young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 This article from The Motorcycle 14th January 1915 shows 10th Battery already being formed around the start of the year. 5th was only formed at the end of November 1914 into December, so the numbers increased very fast in a short time. At the time this article was published only No.1 Battery had gone over 24/12/1914 and No 2 went 28/1/1915. There is also reference to 10th Battery being predominantly Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkley remembers Posted 2 April , 2020 Share Posted 2 April , 2020 35 minutes ago, david murdoch said: Do you have a source for that? Part of letter published in School Magazine Winter 1914...so December of that year. Splendid photographs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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