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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Kaiser Wilhelm II


Khaki

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Does anyone now if the Kaiser was officially removed from his honorary ranks in the British Forces plus the honors and titles that he held as a grandson of Queen Victoria?? Also was he Colonel-in-chief of any British regiments at the outbreak of war.

khaki.

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Does anyone now if the Kaiser was officially removed from his honorary ranks in the British Forces plus the honors and titles that he held as a grandson of Queen Victoria?? Also was he Colonel-in-chief of any British regiments at the outbreak of war.

khaki.

Khaki,

Here is an interesting photograph, the Kaiser in British military uniform, and King George V in German military uniform.

LF

post-63666-0-70308300-1334610837.jpg

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Thanks LF,

I know the Kaiser was very proud of his rank, I think it was a British Admiral rank, and I am sure that he must have been a member of various British Royal Orders, it must have been very painful for him to relinquish them, if that is indeed what happened.

khaki

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Khaki,

Yes, in addition to being a British Admiral, on 21st April, 1894, Queen Victoria appointed The Kaiser as Colonel-in-Chief of the 1st Royal Dragoons, and that was the first time a foreign sovereign appeared in the Army List.

The photograph I posted, was I understand, the first time he appeared wearing the British uniform, as Colonel-in-Chief of the 1st Royal Dragoons, at a family wedding.

LF

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Great photo's of him, I find him one of the most fascinating personalities of his 'time' full of contradictions. I have read a great deal about him, but the question I posed was not in the biographies that I read. I notice that in the photo of him in Admiral's uniform that he appears to be wearing the Star of the Order of the Garter? not to sure though,maybe our medals and orders members can put me straight. I wonder if they were ever returned to Britain or were they restored to him in his later post war years.

khaki

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A pre war shot of the"All Highest" but whose the familiar looking character standing beside him?

post-9885-0-64932300-1334618275.jpg

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May be of interest. The Kaiser owned a house near Bowness that he used to visit incognito in the early 1900s. The press were forbidden to report on this (which unlike today they obeyed) and photographing him was also forbidden (also obeyed) but there are shots of the locals doffing their hats to him in Bowness.

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A pre war shot of the"All Highest" but whose the familiar looking character standing beside him?

post-9885-0-64932300-1334618275.jpg

Looks to me like "Winnie" the other fascinating character of his and our days.

khaki

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May be of interest. The Kaiser owned a house near Bowness that he used to visit incognito in the early 1900s. The press were forbidden to report on this (which unlike today they obeyed) and photographing him was also forbidden (also obeyed) but there are shots of the locals doffing their hats to him in Bowness.

Fascinating stuff, I did not know that, would love to see the photographs if they are available

khaki

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Khaki,

This may interest you, situated on the historical Dalemain Estate, at the head of Martindale in the ancient deer forest, lies The Bungalow, a detached, single storey former shooting lodge that was constructed in 1910 by the Earl of Lonsdale (of Lowther Castle) for use by Kaiser Wilhelm when attending the Martindale deer shoot. It is now available to rent for self catering holidays.

LF

post-63666-0-87011500-1334626688.jpg

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Great photographs, thank you, hard to imagine such a personage as K.W.II wanting to be incognito in Britain or if it was even possible considering the entourage and baggage etc that he travelled with. Interesting too, that you don't see any constable's near the coach. May be out of frame.

khaki

ps; the man in the carriage lifting his hat does bare a similarity to Wilhelm

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I notice that in the photo of him in Admiral's uniform that he appears to be wearing the Star of the Order of the Garter?

khaki

Queen Victoria made the Kaiser a Royal Knight of the Order of the Garter, however, The Sovereign may "degrade" members who have committed serious crimes, such as treason, fleeing the battlefield or those who have taken up arms against the Sovereign.

Therefore, at the start of WW1 King George V, " degraded " two Royal Knights and six Stranger Knights, all monarchs or princes of enemy nations, including Emperor ( Kaiser ) Wilhelm II of Germany and Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria, all were either struck off the roll of the Order or had their appointments annulled in 1915.

LF

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In July 1917, in an effort to distance his dynasty from its German origins, George V changed the name of the British Royal House from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to the House of Windsor.

Also, that year, the British Parliament passed the " Titles Deprivation Act " which empowered the Privy Council to investigate "any persons enjoying any dignity or title as a peer or British prince who have, during the present war, borne arms against His Majesty or His Allies, or who have adhered to His Majesty's enemies."

Under that Act, other members of the Kaiser's family also lost British titles.

LF

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As well as being degraded from the Order of the Garter etc, the appointments of the Kaiser and other to British military or naval ranks were also cancelled.

Some princes who had not identified themselves with the German cause, and lived in England, were given new titles. The Duke of Teck and Prinvce Alexander of Teck (Queen Mary's brothers) became the Marquess of Cambridge and the Earl of Athlone, in the peerage of the United Kingdom.

Ron

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Great photographs, thank you, hard to imagine such a personage as K.W.II wanting to be incognito in Britain or if it was even possible considering the entourage and baggage etc that he travelled with. Interesting too, that you don't see any constable's near the coach. May be out of frame.

khaki

ps; the man in the carriage lifting his hat does bare a similarity to Wilhelm

I think you are misunderstanding incognito - it wasn't the same as secret or anonymous - more akin to unofficial. If the Kaiser visited as the Kaiser (ie head of state) all sorts of official protocols and tiresome ceremonies would be required (and he'd have to meet tedious politicians) by being incognito these were avoided. He was just a super rich, very powerful aristocrat (who just happened to be Kaiser) everybody knew who he was but he didn't have to open things, accept posies from small girls, listen to town bands playing the German national anthem very badly, smile at the peasantry or any of the other fiddle faddle that accompanies an official state visit. Normal protocol for HoS and the like when incognito was to use one of their other titles (I think the Tsar used the Duke of Courland or something similar).

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The 1st Royal Dragoons were chosen with great care as a suitable Regiment. The honour was reciprocal in that the British Sovereign enjoyed a similar position in respect of The 1st Guard Dragoons of the Prussian Guards. Both Regiments had distinguished themselves at Waterloo. The 1st Guard Dragoons were based at "La Belle Alliance" Barracks in Berlin and were named after Queen Victoria and the bandsmen wore the harp of Ireland as a badge on their music pouches. Every year on the anniversary of Waterloo, if the Royals were at home, a wreath was presented on the Kaiser's behalf by the German Ambassador to decorate their standard. The German composer Blankenberg (winner of the international march competition with his "Gladiators Farewell) was commissioned to write a march for the Royal, which is still used.

The Kaiser was stripped of his British military honours, notably his Colonelcy and Field Marshal position, which upset him greatly as this had not been done in previous wars. I am not sure whether he reciprocated. The Cavalry Walk March "Victoria", composed for his mother and which contained "Rule Britannia", was banned and was never played again until well on in the Bundeswehr days.

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Pre WWI Monarchs made other Monarchs honorary Colonels of Regiments in their armies. This got a little ackward after WW I started. There are lsits out there of pre WW I German, Austro-Hungarian and Russian armies and who was honorary colonel of each regiment. They also made each other Admirals in each others navy. Just thought you would like to know.

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The photograph below was taken in Bowness on the same day as the one above. The Kaiser is just about to disembark from the steam yacht 'Otto'. Behind 'Otto' is the steam yacht 'Elfin', which accompanied 'Otto' in a race down the Lake. Shortly after the War, in the depths of night, Elfin was scuttled in a deep location (as far as I'm aware now known only to two people). Local gossip says because it was owned by the Kaiser, however it was actually owned by the late Richard Sladen and although the Kaiser had admired its turn of pace he hadn't actually sailed in her and it's most likely that it was scuttled when no-one could be found to purchase her. Interestingly, a friend who fishes for char on the Lake was taught the char grounds by the old men in the late 1950's. Many of the underwater features are known by the names of trenches, e.g.Dantziger, which would have been familiar to locals who were former members of the Royal Lancaster and the Border Regiments.

maruelfindodotern.jpg

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The photograph below was taken in Bowness on the same day as the one above.

A great photograph, and the Kaiser appears to be wearing the same bowler hat and coat as in post #12.

LF

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Do you know what was the first thing the Kaiser asked for after arriving in the Netherlands in 1918? "A nice English cup ot tea" Must have got it from his mum.

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Postwar,Kaiser Will was safe in the Netherlands when the Western Allies (or was it G.B alone) wished to apprehend him on a charge of war crimes.The Netherland authorities refused to cooperate citing that the move would infringe their neutrality.

In his safe haven,spent his time lumbering.Reported as having cut down 40000 trees on his estate.

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Postwar,Kaiser Will was safe in the Netherlands when the Western Allies (or was it G.B alone) wished to apprehend him on a charge of war crimes.The Netherland authorities refused to cooperate citing that the move would infringe their neutrality.

A special committee was established at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference to look into war crimes which drew up lists of those considered to have a case to answer. The Kaiser was on the list. Clauses were included in the Versailles treaty that established the necessary procedures. Britain, France and Belgium all expressed a wish to see him prosecuted. There was however some disquiet amongst heads of state over prosecuting former heads of state and also a precedent in that Britain had not put Napoleon on trial even when he was in British custody. Immunity of HoS has been claimed to this day (but the recent conviction of Charles Tailor of Liberia has thrown this into much doubt). In the event the Dutch Royal Family itself refused to countenance the ex Kaiser's extradition.

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