Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Britannia in America


centurion

Recommended Posts

At the Conference a number of people were kinf enough to as what progress I have achieved on the touring tank in the USA. - well there are a couple of pieces of the jigsaw to fond but I have post of the picture know so I thought I'd post a synopsis.

Britannia arrived in the USA on the 18th October 1917

She appears to have originally been a supply tank intended to tow sledges up to the leading edge of an attack, such tanks appear to have had female sponsons, a hatch in the cab roof and special towing gear

In North America she was under the command of Captain Richard Haig, a professional soldier (pre war Sandhurst) who had commanded a section of tanks at Arras

Her seven man crew consisted of two sergeants, one corporal and four privates. By the end of tour this number had been increased by eleven to eighteen. probably acting as 'roadies' mechanics, front of house men and administrators.

All of the original crew (including Captain Haig) had previously been seriously wounded and were probably unfit for active service

In the course of a year Britannia made at least 35 visits to army bases, towns and cities in the United States and Canada.

During her stay she crossed the United States from the East Coast to the West and back again

She visited Washington DC and at least a dozen American states and three Canadian provinces

She was a star of the succesful Broadway musical 'Coming Together' written by Ian Hay with input from P.G Wodehouse. (She turned up for the premier and was represented on stage by a full size replica with a rolling backdrop). The musical also played in Boston, Albany and Syracuse (in all of which she also turned up for the opening).

She was directly involved in rallies that succeeded in recruiting tens of thousand of men to the Canadian and British forces.

The tank was used in demonstrations to numerous recent recruits to the American Army (one of whom was Sergeant Irving Berlin)

She helped raise considerable sums of money (millions) in Liberty and Victory bonds for both the American and Canadian war effort.

Britannia was also used to raise money for a wide range of war time charities

The tank was used by many American and Canadian politicians at town, state or province and federal level to boost their own personal standing and re-electability. One of these was Sir Thomas White, the Canadian Finance Minister living with the odium of being the man who introduced income tax to Canada (by comparison a Pastie Tax pales into insignificance).

She was involved with one ex US president, a sitting president (who ended up in hospital as a result) and two future presidents of the United States of America. One of these was Dwight D Eisenhower

Many A list US celebrities of the day regarded it as fashionable to be photoed on top of or at least in front of Britannia. Some donated to WW1 charities to ride in or on the tank

As well as all of this perhaps the chief achievement of the tour was that of an ironclad ambassador. She helped persuade the American public that their country had entered the war on what was going to be the winning side and this was therefore a cause worth supporting. Richard Haig was asked to give evidnce in front of the Senate (they treated him with considerably more common courtesy than they did the BP guy) I was startled to find one paper reporting his evidence as " Haig tells Senate one more heave" thinking I'd come across an historic scoop but different Haig - same line.

What happened to Britannia is so far unknown. She was transferred to the US Army in Oct 1918 and reported in S Carolina awaiting shipment to Camp Colt in Jan 1919 and that's it - the tank at Aberdeen that they claim is Britannia is most defieitly not as it lacks the physical featires that so many photos of Brtitannia show.

Now where do i go from here? The story of Britannia is so diverse and covers a great deal. There is certainly a talk there if anyone's interested. I'm trying to put a book together, again if there is any interest, but on the other side there is an great deal of work possible on the social and politcal ramifications. Suggestions (reasonable polite please always welcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope they didn't end up making a breakwater out of her. They did that with a couple of Great War-era British mini-subs once near where I grew up.

Found a nice photo of her via the Boston Public Library...quite something.

6332505316_fc6b72b5c3_b.jpg

Happy hunting...

Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Britannia arrived in the USA on the 18th October 1917

centurion,

A great subject, here are some more photographs of " Britannia's " U.S. and Canadian trips, and some captions from the photographs with texts. I hope they assist you with your project.

Regards,

LF

" British Tank Stirs City "

The coming to Pittsburg ( Pennsylvania, U.S.A. ) of the British tank " Brittania " ( misspelt ) aroused the populace to a high pitch of enthusiasm. This very iron demon of destruction had hurled havoc into the ranks of the Huns in some of the fiercest fighting in France. When it rumbled up Fifth Avenue it typified to all beholders the might that would sooner or later crush the hopes of the Prussian tyrants for world domination and send them back to their lairs beaten and cringing for mercy from their conquerers, whom they had sought to destroy.

When on Sunday, April 28, 1918, the day following its arrival, the tank rested on Flagstaff Hill in Schenley Park, it was viewed by no less than a million Americans. They crowded as close as possible to the " Brittania " ( misspelt ) which was used as a rostrum for speakers and singers. The throng would not be content with a mere sight of the powerful machine that had helped so valiantly in the winning of the war. Every beholder wanted to touch it, look into it, and ask questions about it and to compare it to the pictures rthey had seen of similar machines.

As an aid to recruiting, the coming of the tank exerted a powerful force. It proved to be a great stimulus to the spirit of the people. The effect was surprising and men rushed in great numbers to enlist. Those who, for various reasons, could not enlist were deeply impressed with the " Keep the Home Fires Burning " sung from the top of the tank by Miss Vera Kaighn. "

post-63666-0-44036700-1333078113.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Photograph of claimed to be " Britannia " renamed " Liberty ".

" Mark IV Female Liberty: displayed at United States Army Ordnance Museum, Aberdeen, Maryland. Originally named Britannia, renamed Liberty, the tank joined the Ordnance Museum collection in 1919. After decades of exposure to the elements, it is in poor condition, but about to undergo restoration. "

This particular tank looks very much like the tank in the New York, and Boston photographs, and they do claim that it has been at the Museum since 1919 ? Could this be Britannia as they claim ?

Regards,

LF

post-63666-0-13761400-1333081036.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said in my post the tank at Aberdeen is NOT Britannia.

I have amassed more than 50 photos of Britannia - in many her cab roof hatch is visible. The tank at Aberdeen does not have a cab roof hatch (most Mk IVs did not). The tank at Aberdeen has the unditching rail brackets in place (welded on in the factory). Britannia did not have these (suggesting that she was a very early Mk IV). There are other differences. I have written to the museum concerning this - they have not deigned to reply in any way.

A small number of Mk IVs were shipped to the USA late in 1918 (probably for use in training infantry in tank cooperation). The tank at Aberdeen is very probably one of these.

My thanks to those who have posted photos. Whilst I already have them I would not wish to discourage this as who knows something new may well pop up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said in my post the tank at Aberdeen is NOT Britannia.

I have amassed more than 50 photos of Britannia - in many her cab roof hatch is visible. The tank at Aberdeen does not have a cab roof hatch (most Mk IVs did not). The tank at Aberdeen has the unditching rail brackets in place (welded on in the factory). Britannia did not have these (suggesting that she was a very early Mk IV). There are other differences. I have written to the museum concerning this - they have not deigned to reply in any way.

A small number of Mk IVs were shipped to the USA late in 1918 (probably for use in training infantry in tank cooperation). The tank at Aberdeen is very probably one of these.

My thanks to those who have posted photos. Whilst I already have them I would not wish to discourage this as who knows something new may well pop up.

I may be wrong but I think that the WWI tank at the Imperial War Museum in London has the name Britannia painted on (I think) the front, but whether or not this tank is the Britannia I really couldn't say...

S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may be wrong but I think that the WWI tank at the Imperial War Museum in London has the name Britannia painted on (I think) the front, but whether or not this tank is the Britannia I really couldn't say...

S.

Isn't the IWM tank a male Mk V?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't the IWM tank a male Mk V?

Sorry, I'm afraid that I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about British tanks so I can't really answer that question. All I can say is that I recall seeing the name Britannia on the front -- I was more interested in the eighteen-pounder just in front of it as my grandfather was a gunner. It could be the tank that you are looking for, or it could also be the IWM just using a more recognizable name?

S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Showing Britannia's cab roof hatch. Even when shut the hinges are clearly visible.

post-9885-0-66795200-1333104777.jpg

Photo was taken in Oct 1918 in Toronto (note the British police uniforms) on the tank's 2nd visit to that city (the first was in 1917). AFAIK this was Britannia's last public outing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Britannia on 5th Avenue, New York, U.S.A. - March 21st, 1918.

This photo's brilliant...a giant tank parked out front of the Flatiron Building near 23rd street...who knew!

:thumbsup:

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW. How do you lose a tank?

She's probably in some collector's living room right now.:P

It'd make one hell of a coffee table!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Britannia on 5th Avenue, New York, U.S.A. - March 21st, 1918.

No - beware of the ways of newspaper sub editors. This photo is of the tank in the Liberty loan day parade of 25th October 1917. This was the tanks first public outing. The NYNG armoured car in the background gives it away. The tank joined the parade at this point and continued with it some way before leaving it for Central Park where it parked by a German U Boat on display there and bonds were sold from the tank. The report of the visit to Brooklyn is correct but the sub editor appears to have recycled an earlier photo from the archives. Britannia was in New York on many occasions and had a lair somewhere close to Grand Central Station.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This photo's brilliant...a giant tank parked out front of the Flatiron Building near 23rd street...who knew!

:thumbsup:

-Daniel

Daniel,

I knew you would like that one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW. How do you lose a tank?

She's probably in some collector's living room right now.:P

Post WW1 the USA had quite a number of British heavy tanks - the 301st brought back from France a number of their Mk V and V*s . One of these Mk V*s is now in the Patton Museum. In addition there were as I mentioned earlier a small number of Mk IVs supplied for training as well as at least one Mk V male supplied for the same purpose. A further Mk V was presented to Cornell University post war. Unfortunately there was a scrap drive in 1942 and most disappeared then. I suspect that this was Britannia's fate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, I'm afraid that I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about British tanks so I can't really answer that question. All I can say is that I recall seeing the name Britannia on the front -- I was more interested in the eighteen-pounder just in front of it as my grandfather was a gunner. It could be the tank that you are looking for, or it could also be the IWM just using a more recognizable name?

S.

It couldn't as Britannia was a Mk IV female. There was a Mk V Britannia that served on the Western Front but this was knocked out. I suspect that the IWM have 'nicked' the name. As I said in my original post, Britannia in the USA was transferred to the US Army so it's very unlikely that she ever came home.

The Western Front Britannia

post-9885-0-61215700-1333109514.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said in my post the tank at Aberdeen is NOT Britannia.

I have amassed more than 50 photos of Britannia - in many her cab roof hatch is visible. The tank at Aberdeen does not have a cab roof hatch (most Mk IVs did not). The tank at Aberdeen has the unditching rail brackets in place (welded on in the factory). Britannia did not have these (suggesting that she was a very early Mk IV). There are other differences. I have written to the museum concerning this - they have not deigned to reply in any way.

Centurion;

I have connections that might well have access to Aberdeen personnel, if you have questions for them that are important to you.

Is the question of the Cornell University tank important? As above, I might have connections. (I spent 10 years up there.)

The IWM tank is a Mk V, I am 99% certain.

Daniel; Is the north-south street passing to the west of the Flatiron Building 5th Avenue? The one on the west (left) side certainly is not. It is diagonal, perhaps Broadway. (Do you know why Broadway runs at a diagonal across Manhatten?) 23rd Street is that one running east-west / right-left at the base of the Flatiron Building. I know that you know all this, it was for general info. (I had thought that 5th Avenue is a block or two to the right/west.)

Bob Lembke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mark IV Female that was at the Aberdeen Proving Ground is now definitely known to be a tank built by the Coventry Ordnance Works in Glasgow. It was one of a batch of Mark IVs exported to the USA at the war's end. As Centurion says, it is not the touring tank. My research into Mark IVs suggests that a cab roof was fitted to a very limited number of Females made by Metropolitan, serial numbers 6001 - 6020, and maybe not even all of these. As such Britannia was quite an usual tank so it's a shame it's not survived.

Thanks for posting the photos - some of these are new to me.

Gwyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Centurion - do you know what the box visible behind the cab in the two photos in post #5 is, please? Does this box appear in other photos of the tank in other locations?

Gwyn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Centurion;

I have connections that might well have access to Aberdeen personnel, if you have questions for them that are important to you.

Is the question of the Cornell University tank important? As above, I might have connections. (I spent 10 years up there.)

The IWM tank is a Mk V, I am 99% certain.

Daniel; Is the north-south street passing to the west of the Flatiron Building 5th Avenue? The one on the west (left) side certainly is not. It is diagonal, perhaps Broadway. (Do you know why Broadway runs at a diagonal across Manhatten?) 23rd Street is that one running east-west / right-left at the base of the Flatiron Building. I know that you know all this, it was for general info. (I had thought that 5th Avenue is a block or two to the right/west.)

Bob Lembke

Talking in compass points is not one of my strong suits, so I'll say the Avenue to the right of the Flatiron building is in fact Fifth Avenue, so it would appear you are correct. I recall hearing an explanation about Broadway's course at some point, but I've just spent the entire extended work day in an Audit, so my recollection of things like that is a bit hazy at the moment. (In case yer wondering, we did well on the audit... :thumbsup: )

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...