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Simon Mills

Swan Chateau & Chateau Cigare.

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Simon Mills

Does anyone know the precise location of two landmarks known as Swan Chateau and Chateau Cigare? If I read the war diary correctly (13th Battalion Middlesex Regiment, from 6th/7th June 1917) these landmarks would have been to the north of the German Damm Strasse trench, which was apparently captured by the 41st Division on 7th June.

If it will help to narrow it down further then other landmarks mentioned in the war diary include Ecluse and Old French Trenches, which I think were in the area to the west (approx) of Hollebeke.

Thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

Simon.

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Roger H

Simon

Here is Swan Chateau, but from a map dated March 1918. Courtesy of TNA trench map CD from N and M Press.

Roger

post-42671-0-22046200-1331313802.jpg

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Simon Mills

Roger,

Thank you once again for your help.

It's interesting as your map places Swan Chateau a bit further back than I had originally anticipated. The war diary describes the trenches between Swan Chateau and Chateau Cigare as an "assembly area" and I had assumed that this would be a little closer to the eventual scene of the fighting (Ravine Wood, west of Hollebeke) than it now seems to be. After that they moved further forward to the area in and around the Ecluse and Old French Trenches, which are probably a great deal closer. They went over the top at 3.10 p.m. that day (7th June) "under an excellent barrage" and sadly that is the last piece of certain information that I have on the movements of my great uncle Arthur.

If by any chance you manage to turn up a map reference to any of the aforementioned landmarks or areas (don't worry about Ravine Wood as you found that for me last year) then I'd be very interested to know more.

Thanks,

Simon.

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Roger H

Just back from watching Moseley beat Plymouth Albion and I have had a beer or three. I will try and check tomorrow.

Roger

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Roger H

Bloody hell - I couldn't resist having a look. Here is Ecluse Trench (typically on the edge of the map) a little South East of Swan Chateau. Map dated Feb 1917 - same source.

Roger

post-42671-0-16463400-1331334957.jpg

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CROONAERT

Trench lines (GHQ 2nd Line) between Swan Chateau and Chateau Segard, May 1917 ....

post-357-0-13410700-1331335228.jpg

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Roger H

And although not actually shown on this map, the index to the CD says that Old French trench was in squares O16 c and d. Hope all of this is helpful.

Roger

Ah - I thought Dave would come up trumps! I'm off to bed!

Roger

post-42671-0-20495600-1331335670.jpg

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CROONAERT

And although not actually shown on this map, the index to the CD says that Old French trench was in squares O16 c and d. Hope all of this is helpful.

It was in O1, O2 and I32 ... area of St.Eloi...

dave

post-357-0-21462500-1331336336.jpg

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Simon Mills

Roger/Dave,

That's absolutely brilliant. No wonder I couldn't find Chateau Cigare on a map as it appears to have been transcribed incorrectly in the war diary, but all of a sudden the reference to Chateau Segard makes perfect sense.

Many thanks to you both for your help and have a good weekend.

Simon.

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Roger H

Simon/Dave

I'm an idiot. I misread my handwriting. I jotted down O1 b on a scrap of paper and misread it for 016 when I was looking it up on the CD. Apologies.

Roger

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Simon Mills

Simon/Dave

I'm an idiot. I misread my handwriting. I jotted down O1 b on a scrap of paper and misread it for 016 when I was looking it up on the CD. Apologies.

Roger

Roger,

Don't worry about it -- I have entire years like that. In any event, thanks to you and Dave I'm still a lot wiser as to the location than I was twenty-four hours ago.

S.

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Cnock

Hi,

 

aerial Chateau Segard early 1915. No military camps yet around the chateau

 

regards,

 

Cnock 

KRUISSTRAATHOEK.jpg

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