Units in India & Burma -1911 Census

[hazelclark]

Hi Guest!

That is a great reference list you have compiled and when I went through the "other units" i found more Seaforths in different places. My question now is, do you have any more hospitals and sanitoriums to add, because somewhere I came across the "Bareilly Hospital"?

Thanks,

Hazel C

Quote

Yes. The King's Own is the King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment....not to be confused with The King's (Liverpool Regiment). The cover page definitely shows 1st Bn at Dilkusha, Lucknow, as does the cover page for the detachment at Chakrata, United Provinces.

 

[Guest]

Hi Hazel - not sure I understand your question..... If you have found an additional unit (the Bareilly Hospital) that is quite possible. If anyone finds a unit that I have missed, do PM me and I will add to the index. I think I have a 99% solution. I have not looked at all 4,019 pages so it is distinctly possible that there may be some additional minor units that only take up a few pages of census. Maybe if I explain how I built the index, it might help....

Metod 1: I scrolled forward until I found the first 'landing page' i.e. the blue cover page for the first unit's census return. Exactly 2 pages forward is a summary page. From this one can see the total number of people (Officers, ORs and dependents) in that particular unit return. For example it might record 232 men and 34 family members (wives and sons and daughters always appear at the end and separate from the men). Given each page can record 30 people, I would assume the 323 men would take up at least 8 pages (232/30 =7.73) and the families take up 2 pages (34/30= 1.13), so a total of 10 pages...so I would then jump forward 10 pages and hope I landed on the cover page for the next unit. Here is where it begins to get more tricky. For a number of reasons (errors, blanks, extra spacings etc) the maths does not always work, and I wouldn't always 'land' on a blue cover page. In these cases I would scroll backwards or forwards until I hit the next cover page. In most cases this would work, typically within a few clicks, as by going backwards one would usually pick up the previous unit name and be comfortable that one had found the end of the preceding census.

For Infantry battalions, usually all 8 companies ran concurrently and the 1,030 or so men plus families would typically take up 50 pages. I found that their families were recorded over a number of pages (usually more than necessary). Usually every unit recorded the unit name in the census next to each man's name, but not always. Some units only recorded the unit name on the cover page and the summary page and not next to the men's name.....so sometimes by scrolling backwards I was not always 100% sure I had picked up the very end of the previous unit's census as occasionally the unit column was blank....so it is possible that minor units that did not record the unit name may have been missed. I hope all that makes sense.

Method 2. Having established the blue landing pages from Method 1, I went over them again using the landing page as each starting point and then jumping 10 pages at a time - this was to double check there was continuity within the larger units. When smaller units were encountered, I shortened the jumps to 5 or less pages.

I am very confident that I managed to find all the major units (infantry battalions) as by using the methodologies above, however if there were a series of very minor units that ran sequentially, it is possible that I missed one or two. Some minor units only had one page (the Military Grass farm for example) and to be 100% sure I would have had to look at every page (twice). Time and interest does not permit.

My main interest was to build an index of the major units and in particular those units that later formed part of the 29th Infantry Div. As I had to scour the whole database, I thought as I went along I would note the other units as I realised that the index might be useful to others. The RFA Batteries, Infantry units and some Cavalry units were so large it is almost impossible to miss them when I did the second check. I hope this helps understanding the integrity of the index. I can not say it is 100% accurate but it is a 99% solution and much better than nothing. It took a whole day to build.

Regards Guest

P.S. The last Caveat is that individual men might be detached from their unit - as rocdoc discovered. Some are also found on Bde Staff and in the various sanitoriums and hospitals dotted around the country.

[hazelclark]

Sorry Guest - As I was trolling through the Seaforths I came across a notation that one of them was absent at "Bareilly Hospital". I had previously gone through all your other units and had not come across that particular hospital. I did try to find it in the Census but could have missed it, so just wondered if you had any more "other units" you had come across.

H.C.

Quote

Hi Hazel - not sure I understand your question..... If you have found an additional unit (the Bareilly Hospital) that is quite possible. If anyone finds a unit that I have missed, do PM me and I will add to the index. I think I have a 99% solution. I have not looked at all 4,019 pages so it is distinctly possible that there may be some additional minor units that only take up a few pages of census. Maybe if I explain how I built the index, it might help....

Metod 1: I scrolled forward until I found the first 'landing page' i.e. the blue cover page for the first unit's census return. Exactly 2 pages forward is a summary page. From this one can see the total number of people (Officers, ORs and dependents) in that particular unit return. For example it might record 232 men and 34 family members (wives and sons and daughters always appear at the end and separate from the men). Given each page can record 30 people, I would assume the 323 men would take up at least 8 pages (232/30 =7.73) and the families take up 2 pages (34/30= 1.13), so a total of 10 pages...so I would then jump forward 10 pages and hope I landed on the cover page for the next unit. Here is where it begins to get more tricky. For a number of reasons (errors, blanks, extra spacings etc) the maths does not always work, and I wouldn't always 'land' on a blue cover page. In these cases I would scroll backwards or forwards until I hit the next cover page. In most cases this would work, typically within a few clicks, as by going backwards one would usually pick up the previous unit name and be comfortable that one had found the end of the preceding census.

For Infantry battalions, usually all 8 companies ran concurrently and the 1,030 or so men plus families would typically take up 50 pages. I found that there families were recorded over a number of pages (usually more than necessary). Usually every unit recorded the unit name in the census next to each man's name, but not always. Some units only recorded the unit name on the cover page and the summary page and not next to the men's name.....so sometimes by scrolling backwards I was not always 100% sure I had picked up the very end of the previous unit's census as occasionally the unit column was blank....so it is possible that minor units that did not record the unit name may have been missed. I hope all that makes sense.

Method 2. Having established the blue landing pages from Method 1, I went over them again using the landing page as each starting point and then jumping 10 pages at a time - this was to double check there was continuity within the larger units. When smaller units were encountered, I shortened the jumps to 5 or less pages.

I am very confident that I managed to find all the major units (infantry battalions) as by using the methodologies above, however if there were a series of very minor units that ran sequentially, it is possible that I missed one or two. Some minor units only had one page (the Military Grass farm for example) and to be 100% sure I would have had to look at every page (twice). Time and interest does not permit.

My main interest was to build an index of the major units and in particular those units that later formed part of the 29th Infantry Div. As I had to scour the whole database, I thought as I went along I would note the other units as I realised that the index might be useful to others. The RFA Batteries, Infantry units and some Cavalry units were so large it is almost impossible to miss them when I did the second check. I hope this helps understanding the integrity of the index. I can not say it is 100% accurate but it is a 99% solution and much better than nothing. It took a whole day to build.

Regards Guest

P.S. The last Caveat is that individual men might be detached from their unit - as rocdoc discovered. Some are also found on Bde Staff and in the various sanitoriums and hospitals dotted around the country.

 

[Guest]

On 11/03/2012 at 16:34, hazel clark said:

Sorry Guest- As I was trolling through the Seaforths I came across a notation that one of them was absent at "Bareilly Hospital". I had previously gone through all your other units and had not come across that particular hospital. I did try to find it in the Census but could have missed it, so just wondered if you had any more "other units" you had come across.

H.C.

Hi Hazel - I did not find any hospitals on this Census, but they might be on the other two that include India viz: India &Ceylon and Indian & Singapore. Implicitly if this is a true census, every establishment would be covered. There are 2 Sanitoriums but I don't think they classify as hospitals. Guest

[teejay65]

Could you please tell me where in India the RGA unit on page 358( of 470) was based.

Regards, Tom

[Guest]

On 13/03/2012 at 19:34, tomboy said:

Could you please tell me where in India the RGA unit on page 358( of 470) was based.

Regards, Tom

Tom - I assume you are referring to the India and Ceylon Census (470 pages). It is 75th Coy RGA and was based at Conaught (sic) Barracks, Colaba, Bombay (modern Mumbai). The landing page is 352. Regards Guest

[teejay65]

Quote

Tom - I assume you are referring to the India and Ceylon Census (470 pages). It is 75th Coy RGA and was based at Conaught (sic) Barracks, Colaba, Bombay (modern Mumbai). The landing page is 352. Regards Guest

Many thanks for your swift answer to my question Guest; that is exactly what I wished to know.

 

Best regards, Tom

[josa]

Need some help please, can you search the Census and display the page eg:

Page no. Unit Station Province

746 52nd Bty RFA Jubbulpore

I am interested in the complete 52nd Bty details

thanks

josa

[Guest]

Hi Josa

The original post was just a helpful index rather than an offer for a free research service. I can't show you the data as it's copyright is HMSO and Ancestry.co.uk has paid for the rights to distribute it. More importantly the data cost someone a lot of money to maintain (HMSO in this case, supplemented by Ancestry), and it is a strong belief of mine that we should be glad to pay for access to information as the money ultimately goes towards maintaining these unique records. Can I very politely suggest you do one of 2 things:

1. Subscribe to Ancestry.co.uk. It is not expensive and despite the criticisms is better than anything in the world with the possible exception of the Australian and NZ records. It will alos open up a new world.

2. Ask someone on the GWF who does has access to give you precisely what you are looking for, purely for research purposes (this is allowed under copyright law in the UK). This should be info on one individual rather than the whole database.

Good luck.

Regards Guest

[kelly]

Hi Guest,

I would be very grateful if you could give me any assisstance on the Kings Own Border Regiment, as my grandad served with them.

Regards

Garry

[trooper159]

My grandfather served in India with the Sherwood Foresters, but came back to UK on 1st April 1911, would he be included in the 1911 census or was it held later in 1911

[Guest]

It was done on 1st April

[trooper159]

Thanks for that, seems he was on the boat (just) from Bombay - UK

[trooper159]

i wonder, would the War Office have done census on troops about to go home, as they would miss the census in UK, my relative seems to be in limbo between countries at the time ?

9211 LCpl Shilcock H. Sherwood foresters

[alanlw]

Quote

Cavalry Regiments serving in India - 1911 Census pages for each unit

Page no. Unit Station Province

2992 1st King's Dragoon Guards Ambala Punjab

3839 7th Dragoon Guards Trimulgherry Deccan

3364 1st Royal Dragoons Muttra

850 6th Inniskilling Dragoons Mhow Central Provinces

2360 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars Dilkusha, Lucknow

3405 13th Hussars Meerut

3724 14th King's Hussars Bangalore

1068 10th Royal Hussars Rawalpindi Punjab

1098 17th Lancers Sialkot Punjab

Hi- Just found this topic. I am looking for the 10th Hussar Summary records. I am a fully paid up member of Ancestry but cannot find the locations/record numbers you mention. I can only find 1114 summary records in India -see attached. Can you explain how you accessed them? Many thanks.

Alan

[hazelclark]

They have changed the format. Look at my thread from Oct. 1st and you will see the way to do it under" Ancestry Military Census". don't know how to post the link!!!

h.C.

[Mick.Eat]

Thanks for the great work Guest.

I managed to find my lost Uncle George in W battery RHA.

Cheers,

MickE

[bushfighter]

Guest

Namaste

I am trying to find details of the Burma Military Police battalions in the country at the start of the Great War.

I cannot follow the link to Andaman Islands & Burma, please could you repeat it.

Thank you Harry

[Stephen Nulty]

Are the page numbers in the OP still valid?

[hazelclark]

Are the page numbers in the OP still valid?

No. It is set up differently now.

H.

[Guest]

Sadly, after trawling over 4,000 pages and compiling an Index, either Ancestry or TNA changed the files so the Index is now meaningless. I am not particularly inclined to go through the exercise again. If you have an Ancestry subscription, go to the 1911 Census for England and under the County drop-down menu you will also find 'military' ...if you enter this, another subset of menus appears showing India (1114 pages) , India and Singapore (50) pages, Burma and the Andaman Islands (72) pages and Ceylon and India (138) pages....

Regards

Guest

[Stephen Nulty]

Cheers all, I found what I was after (1st SLR)

[jaypee5]

Michael Robinson b 1887 in County Durham is listed on the 1911 census as a Lt Corporal serving in India with 1st Batt DLI. He was apparently All India Boxing Champion at some point. According to family stories he joined the International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War and was never heard of again.

Can anyone help me to find more information please.

[MaureenE]

jaypee5, you could try contacting the Durham Record Office, which has the Archives of the Durham Light Infantry.

You could also try online British newspapers for the period, such as those on findmypast, or the British Newspaper Archive, both pay sites and the same newspapers, as often British newspapers included news from India.

There is also an online database for the Times of India, viewable at the British Library, which perhaps may be another source, although I don't know how much Army news would be included. I'm assuming that All India Boxing Champion would in fact be an Army competition.

For those intested in this topic genially, there is another thread by Black Sapper

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=196781&p=1935666

Cheers

Maureen

[CGM]

If you want to follow up on the International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War you could try HERE.

He is not listed in the Roll of Honour (List of those who died in Spain).