8th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles.

[NAH]

Hello all,

I am looking for help in finding a casualty list for the 8th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles ( East Belfast Volunteers ), I am a member of an association in East Belfast that tours battlefields/cemetery's and memorials, we lay wreaths at the main memorials and a few members relatives graves but we would like to simply lay one wreath bearing the names of the fallen from our area at each relevant cemetery, this is due mainly to the costs involved.

Any offer of help with any detail regarding this battalion would be greatly received.

[jdoyle]

if you search the CWGC for "Royal Irish Rifles", World War One, it will produce a list of over 7300 entries. The new Export Data feature means you can grab this list to Excel and then sort/filter by Battalion. Should give you some of what you want.

The cemetery is recorded in the export so with another sort you should have a list of names for each cemetery.

[ander11]

Hello

From the SDGW there are 300 men for the 8th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles, that's 12 pages !!!

Regards

Ian

[NAH]

Thanks both will check them out.

[NAH]

I used the export data on CWGC site and its now just a matter of sorting and editing. Oh and getting the money-making machine that is microsoft to upgrade my trial version of excel for around a weeks wages!

Thanks again for your help.

[jdoyle]

OpenOffice or Google Docs may be able to do the job if Excel is an issue.

Let me know if you need any help with this.

[NAH]

OpenOffice or Google Docs may be able to do the job if Excel is an issue.

Let me know if you need any help with this.

Many thanks for your help, I have another question regards the same battalion, after looking through these records I found that 6 men from the 8th Bn RIR died on 11th June 1916 and are buried side by side in Authuile Military Cemetery (Numbers 8-13) can anyone help explain?

[NAH]

Further on the above post, 2 more men from the 8th buried in adjoining plots on 1oth June 1916:

Second Lieutenant Robert McCalmont Pettigrew.

Rifleman W. G. Quinn

[Ardtrabane]

Interesting question I did a little digging,

From "History of the 36^th (Ulster) Division" CyrilFalls 1922.

…"On the first day of June 1916, the front of the 36^thDivision was held by the 107^th Brigade"… "On the 5^th(June) a raid was carried out by a party of the 12^th Rifles"…"Five nights later the Germans retaliated upon the little salient in the British line opposite, known as William Redan, then held by the 15^th Rifles.After our trenches had been pounded by a bombardment of half an hour the raiders advanced. They suffered loss from our barrage, and not more than half a dozen actually entered our trench. Half a minute's hand-to-hand fighting and they were out of it again, bearing with them the leader of the raid, who had been shot by a British officer. Our trenches were considerably damaged, but causalities were not heavy"…

In a letter from OC 36^th Major- General Oliver Nugent to his wife, dated 10 June 1916.

…"My trenches were raided last night by the Germans on a part of my line. They levelled them flat and then attached with infantry. We beat them off. 5 men reached the front line but never actually got in. We had 65 casualties however, including 3 officers 2 of whom were killed and the 3^rd is dying I am afraid"…

There were 9 KIA from 15^th Rifles dated 11 June1916 mostly buried in Hamel Military Cemetery, Beaumont-Hamel. 1 DOW 12 June.

There were 2 officers from the MGC as well as 2 L/TPettigrew.

As the 15^th Rifles and the 8^th Rifles were both part of 107^th Brigade of the 36^th then the casualties in Authuile probably were as a result of this raid.

Don

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Theres always Geoff's

http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search1421.php

Regards,

Graeme

[NAH]

It had been suggested to me about this trench raid or shelling but thanks to the facts above its now clear.

Many thanks both for the help.

[Guest john orr]

you've inadvertently been a great help in discovering how one of 3 of my grandas mates was killed ,I have his "dead mans penny" but as my granda would never go into detail of how his mates died, all 4 (including my granda) were apprentices in the shipyard and all under 18 when they signed up together in the 8th service battalion RIR.

I don't. think my granda ever got over the loss of his 3 pals and felt guilty that he came home but they didn't, even though he was shot and gassed ,my late uncle and I took him to the Somme in 1974 ,it was the first time I saw him shed a tear he spent time at a grave in Authille military cemetery and another in Beaumont Hamel and got a rubbing of his third mates name at Menem Gate as he has no known grave.

my granda had at last found peace and was happier than any of us ever seen him from the day we left France till his passing in 1982, he looked younger and stood taller as if a great weight was lifted from his shoulders but the mystery (for us) of the other lads deaths still persisted but the description of the bombardment and the quote of "2 dead and 1 dying" has solved the reason for the date on the penny being 16th June 1916,

now I hope to be able to find any family members of the dead rifleman whose penny was left to me, as it should be with his family as they have someone who they should look up to even though it's almost a century since he fell.

[robertbarrie96]

Hi all, 

 

Does anyone have War Diary info for the 8th Battalion during October? The only version I have goes up to September, but I'm pretty sure my great grandather won his MC in October so I'd love to see the offensive/operation it was gained in.  Also, I have a picture of my great granfather in uniform but was wondering if theres a photo of the 8th Battalion together, that would be wonderful.

Many thanks in advance

Rob

[clk]

Hi Rob,

 

21 minutes ago, robertbarrie96 said:

...I'm pretty sure my great grandather won his MC in October...

 

What was his name? A number of members should be able to confirm the October date for you, and direct you to the relevant diaries.

 

Regards

Chris

[robertbarrie96]

On 23. 2. 2017 at 20:20, clk said:

Hi Rob,

 

 

What was his name? A number of members should be able to confirm the October date for you, and direct you to the relevant diaries.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Hi, 

Name: Captain Claude Castle

(he may also be under Major (I'm confused as to when even if he was promoted) but I'm pretty sure he was predominantly a Captain and was also one when he won the MC)

When: His MC was announced in the Edinburgh Gazette of 8th March 1918 (Issue 13220) published on 11th March 1918.

I would love to see an original entry of the reason for his MC.

Many thanks for any help.

[clk]

Hi Rob,

 

His MC index card is on p766 of this free download .

 

His annotated citation is on p150 of this free download and indicates that it was for his actions on 16th August 1917 at Wieltje.

 

It looks like you are getting the Battalion war diary sorted through your other topic/post. If nobody else suggests it, it may be worth also looking at the Brigade HQ; Division HQ (General Staff); and the Division HQ (Adjutant and Quartermaster General). They will be available from the National Archives (search page here),

 

or Ancestry (here), and will probably give you a lot more contextual detail.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Regards

Chris

[clk]

Hi Rob,

 

Thinking about it a bit more, as Claude was the Divisional Salvage Officer, I guess that whilst he was 'officially' an officer of the 8th Battalion, the reality was that he was probably commanding a number of men (a Company??) that worked across the Divisional area when he 'won' his MC - i.e. you can't rely with absolute confidence on the 8th Battalion diary to establish his likely movements before, during, and after his MC action. The only example of a diary for a "Divisional Salvage Company" that I found is this one on Ancestry. I appreciate that it's the wrong Division, and from a slightly earlier period. What it does show though is that Company was commanded by an officer (Captain) from a named Battalion, how they 'roamed' within divisional area, and the kind of duties that they were involved in. Perhaps even more reason to look at the higher level diaries?

 

Regards

Chris

[robertbarrie96]

Hi Chris,

 

Many thanks for the help, I already know quite a lot about him. I have found the gazette announcement for this and also the roll call of the battalion which has him at temp. Captain, so does this mean he was a temp captain throughout the war or simply just for an offensive. My great grandmother always said he was Captain throughout most of the war so I'm a bit confused. 

When I read the gazette document re: his MC I just assumed the Divisional Salvage Officer was a temporary job for a offensive. What did salvage divisions do exactly? I know quite a fair amount on WW1 but I'd never heard of this before and I'd love to know more about it. Also, I have never seen the MC announcement annotated, what a wonderful find, thank you so much! I know the date and place now which is wonderful

In regard to the war diary, the other member has forwarded me October but I couldn't find his name, so I'm trying September now, fingers crossed!! I'll have a look back over August as well.

One more thing, the War Diary form 8th Btn. I downloaded from the Archives has a few entries that my father and I have matched the handwriting to from handwritten letter from my great grandfather to his wife shortly after the war. Does this mean there will be nuggets of information in this war diary then?

 

I only live 15 mins away from Kew so I think it's worth going there to have a look at this.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4556547

 

Once again, thanks for all your help so far,

Regards,

Rob

Edited 1 March , 2017 by robertbarrie96
Added in extra info

[clk]

Hi Rob,

 

If you are going to Kew, and haven't already got it, you could get a copy of what's left of his officer file. When the link opens, click on the "more ways to view this record" drop down to see what you would need to do. Hopefully the file would answer a number of your queries.

 

Regards

Chris

[robertbarrie96]

I think I'll organise a little outing with my dad there as soon as possible! Thanks for all the help, I'll give you an update after I check the file out if you're interested 

 

Best wishes,

 

Rob

[robertbarrie96]

Hi @clk,

 

I indeed went to Kew and found out a lot of information. I have a question. I have uploaded 2 documents. The first showing he, if I'm not mistaken, was granted the rank of Major when leaving the army. And the second, in an announcement from the gazette he comes under the "Whilst Officers i/c of a Record Sub-Section".   What does this mean? In command of a record sub section? I'm a bit confused. Was he granted the rank of Major? The first picture says so.

Photo 1 is below

Photo 2 is in the link under the first photo called "data.pdf"

Many thanks for any insight you can provide, 

 

Robert

data.pdf

Edited 21 March , 2017 by robertbarrie96

[robertbarrie96]

I think I've found out the answer. After some more digging on the Gazette I finally found an announcment he had been granted the rank of Major. A very proud great grandson sitting here at the moment!

Edited 21 March , 2017 by robertbarrie96

[robertbarrie96]

Hi all, 

 

While I found a lot at the national archives, they said looking at photos would be useless and too time consuming. Anyone know where I can find a picture of the 8th Battalion (even maybe 8/9th together)? I've tried the RIR museum but they said they do not have many photos.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.